John Gage: There is a systemic ecological limit to the amount of energy use. Now, energy use is not the same as economic growth. There are ever more efficient ways of converting energy into the materials, the substances, the objects, the products, the staples that we as an industrial or post industrial civilization use in daily life. So, efficiency can substitute for increased energy use because there is a limit to the tolerance of the Earth for ever-greater expenditures of heat. If we have a way that allows each object that we create to carry with it a trail of information about the energy used, to create energy that will be used to dispose off it, so that it becomes part of a cycle, hopefully a sustainable cycle of material and energy through this economic system. Then, we may be able to keep the ecological limits, that is to say the sustainability limits for energy to use and balance in our overall ecosphere in the entire terrestrial energy balance, in energy exchange and that would allow economic growth within boundaries of today’s energy use. First and fundamental lesson to be learned from the currently economically developed countries is the immense waste inherent in the structures we build, in the operational budgets for both energy and for maintenance of these buildings, these automobiles, these trucks, these vehicles, these streets, the design errors that lead to immense waste of water, waste of energy and waste of the substance of the Earth must be rectified and [audio ends].