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How should the development of developing countries take place? Is micro- finance or macro- finance better? |
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China Keitetsi: Looking at my background I don't know the difference of macro and micro, but I have an example. For example, in Rwanda where in villages and poor households, women are given some kind of little money, and then are made to come in groups and get this money and work together, or come up with an idea, for example, farming. They give them money, begin to farm which was very, very successful and that means even women go on making small associations where they put money every month. Then at the end of one month, one woman gets this money. This was a very big help and I liked it because women in Africa, for example, in poor countries are very, very concerned with the well being of their children. And I came to this point where I said the African women are carrying Africa. Without the African women there would be no Africa. And they were very much successful. Monies to send their children in school. But also a micro or macro finance to work, we have to be very, very interested that it works. We have to have our leaders or those who provide it to people to really do it with love, with care, not just to give and leave everything to the people who receive it. |
Constantin von Barloewen: For many generations it was believed that only by economic investments on the level of macro-finance it would be possible to succeed in the Third World countries. This was believed by countries and World Bank organisations. The last 10 or 15 years have shown, through the examples of e.g. Mohammed Junus, inventor in Bangladesh, or the Swiss family Schmidtheini, achieving a lot in South America, that micro-finance is very important. The "Guamin" Bank is highly successful nowadays in 50 or 60 states worldwide with the micro-finance, with micro credits which have proven that whole families, that women can be incorporated much stronger in the economy. Nowadays one needs to find a balance between so-called macro-finance of the industrialised nations, the so-called development aid, and the micro-finance and its success. There is not only the "Guamin" Bank, but a lot of other banks or institutions worldwide, showing that those "grass root" politics can be highly successful economically. It is astonishing that now micro-finance is offered e.g. in Switzerland as a possible investment by the big banks. I believe that it is possible to achieve a lot in this field, as the so-called development aid stagnates at about 0.37 %, e.g. in Germany, where the necessary 0.7 % are not reached, as well the Netherlands and the Northern European states cannot reach this. North America´s value is at about 0.1 %, and only Japan has a slightly higher value. That is to say, the macro-finance alone will not be sufficient for the Third World countries, the micro-finance is an important part of it and should be as well in the future, to create a balance. |
Cornel West: Development of developing countries is one in which -- what is most important is the ways in which we put the needs and rights and dignity of ordinary people at its center. I do not believe there is one way, one method, one strategy, one algorithm or development; but what ought to be at the center is education, healthcare, protection of rights and liberties and jobs with a living wage against the backdrop of the protection of environment. No one of us have an overnight solution or a push button panacea regarding exactly how this is to take place. But, we do know that when our priorities put on military budgets and priorities put on the quest for profits that downplay the satisfaction of the basic needs of human beings, that development remains not simply uneven, but it hemorrhages wealth at the top; and it makes it difficult for poor people to gain assess to the kind of healthcare, education and right to liberties that they deserve. by Cornel West |
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Dedi Baron: Answertext will be available soon. by Dedi Baron |
Donato Bayu Bay Bumacas: There are many ways where developing countries can develop as long as they have the political will to develop their own self. Since the colonization era, there had been an issue of other countries trying to dictate how Third World countries developed. But now most of the Third World countries are dependent and, therefore, they should really develop their own countries based on the assets that we have. This is developing their own countries based on their existing assets. And perhaps those lacking ones which can be complemented by outside countries or foreign countries can be welcome because the moment that Third World countries will be dependent, especially on loans, there is no way, there is no way Third World countries will develop because to be more indebted is becoming too dependent to the one who is giving the loan. It's just like an organization that a country should have a vision, mission, goals and objectives in order to be developed. They should practice good governance. They should design a strategy on effective delivery of social services to the people. And these are the things, the key ingredients where developing countries can at least develop their own and perhaps go to the next level off -- to the second countries. |
Dritëro Kasapi: Hello Mr. Jadamba. I come from Macedonia. I’m born there. Mongolia and Macedonia might not have so much in common but something really important. We were both socialist or communist countries that are undergoing a transition to a more open market economies and democracy. In Macedonia, I don't know how it is in Mongolia, but in Macedonia there was a lot of focus on macro-economy. It was run by the Monetary Fund and they were telling Macedonia how to run its economics on macro level. And yes, Macedonia has very low inflation and everything is fine and has a very stable macro economics. It has debts that are manageable in macro level but we have 36% unemployment in Macedonia because there was no thought or no action being taken in micro-level. Nothing to empower the individual to take actions to believe that whatever it endeavors, it might come to some economic benefit for the individual. So basically, yes, the micro-economics is fine but there is no possibility for initiatives by individuals and I feel that in order for any economy to really be developing further has to run on both tracks. Both macroeconomics and microeconomics. Both to have a control over the macro aspects and also to give the power to the individual to be able to use its creativity for creating--[AUDIO ENDS] |
Eliane Potiguara: I think in this matter the voice of the people, the groups, the persons who do have a common objective must be heard. Let’s say if in a community the biggest environmental richness is fruits, prawns or fish one should invest in those local projects, ideas and see what’s best for each individual. But it is not like that. The investor arrives and decides because he’s got the machines, he’s got the money, he’s got the funds. And he goes on patronizing and deciding like “I’m going to make”, “I’m going to build” and so on. He’s not interested in a cooperation and collaboration, he takes the land of the people who lives there and adopts it as its own. Now, this is no economical system but a system of opression. In my opinion it’s the micro-projects and the micro-financing that are more important, because those would be more under control of the people, of the own community. |
Eliot Weinberger: Obviously, you need both. You need -- on the one hand, you need aid to build wells in villages. On the other hand, you do need large scale projects to generate electricity and so forth. The problem of course has been that the IMF and the World Bank and organizations such as that have been preoccupied with the big projects and haven’t thought at all about the small projects. So, obviously, you need some sort of balance between the two, and a thinking – much less of a corporate thinking and more of a community thinking in terms of what development means. I think there is probably too much thought given to development on a national scale and thinking of the nation’s state and less thought given to development on the village scale. So, it’s not an either/or proposition, it’s a question of some sort of balance and probably greater emphasis on the village scale than on the nation scale. |
Elisabet Sahtouris: The question of whether developing countries should go into micro-finance or macro-finance is a very interesting one. Macro-finance is something that has been imposed on developing countries. Developing countries were offered very large loans for development and these were loans that were so large that they couldn’t be repaid. There were also loans that went into building infrastructure that did not necessarily serve the development of all the people of those countries. Sometimes there were highways built that didn’t really go anywhere or more electricity that was more for airports that never got their airplanes or factories that employed local people to make products for export. So, large amounts of money into countries that are developing has proved very disastrous in many cases. And so, micro-finance has been much more effective in grassroots development especially because so many micro-finance programs were developed among women who were extremely accountable economically and with very small amounts of money they were able to develop little local businesses that helped the whole village to improve. And therefore, building the ability of local people to take care of themselves, which is the real strength of any country is when its local systems are functioning democratically and functioning for the benefit of all their people, then the country can become stronger from the bottom up. So, I think micro-finance has proven itself to be much more effective than macro-finance in developing countries. |
Ervin Laszlo: It’s not a question of either, or macro-finance or micro-finance, the question of both at the right level. You cannot develop entire countries and economies and urban centers purely by micro-finance. At the same time, macro-finance is not sufficient in developed families, villages and small communities. You have to use the right kind of finance for the right purpose. by Ervin Laszlo |
Esther Mwaura-Muiru: It is finances forwards and costs associated with the finances. I think traditionally societies did rely on better trade, and people relied on exchanging goods. And so they deal in finances to be able to develop. So, with the micro or macro, it depends on what you want to do with that money. It depends on who defines the investment, and I think only grassroots communities can decide what amount of resources they do have. And a lot of times we think externally, we must -- external development agencies -- we must put money for communities to develop, and I think this is so so wrong. There’s a lot of communities. If they were not curtailed to do the -- to use the resources they have, to design their own strategies on how to improve their own life rewards and keep their own life rewards, that they can survive. So, I feel it's not a question of micro or macro. It's actually who lives and defines where the what should go. It's who defines what is development, who defines what are the components of development, so that we can say, then we want to have 20 buildings, we have to have 20 schools, we want to have 20 water boreholes. Or do we want actually to see a community, which protects its environment and sometimes it doesn’t need the money? We want to have a community that shares its own traditional knowledge, and you don’t need the micro-finance to share your own traditional knowledge that actually protects the environment. And you don’t need actually to have a building that cost 20 million to be able to say that you need micro-finances to build it. You probably need very simple tools to be able to solve some of the problems that are existing. It's not money. Money is… |
Fernando Solanas: This is a quite complicated question. The developing countries suffer from all kinds of neocolonialism; that means they suffer from being dominated by local powers which in turn are totally committed to the worldwide powers of the central societies, especially the United States. The world of today is designed to dominate, it is designed by huge superstructures of domination in order to control and dominate the economic life of the other nations. We must not forget that because of this money is controlled via the International Monetary Fund, where a fistful of countries have the power to decide and where only one country – the United States – has the power of veto; the same is true of other international authorities like the United Nations, the Security Council. All this is a farce because the gigantic aggressions and warlike genocides neither counted on an intervention nor on the Security Council and the veto of some of the few members that dominate it. Today's world is under an international judicial system or international institutions that don't reflect it. This is a consequence of the Second World War which created institutions that serve the victors of the Second World War, but this is not true for the entire planet. For example it is not true for Latin America which participated neither in the Second Word War nor in the First and which has its own history and its own development plans. The process of economic development of our countries should naturally be to democratise. The democratisation of the economies and the democratisation of the institutions of the developing countries, as is the case in Argentina, naturally requires great institutional changes, but above all it requires independence and liberation from the system of domination exercised on Argentina by the multinationals and the international banking authorities etc. |
Fred Matser: Well, I think that it depends, of course, on which country, but I think that as well as macro-finance, as well as micro-finance can stand together, I think macro-finance is the best to be used for infrastructural works and that kind of works that are taking a lot of investments, not only infrastructures of roads, but I think also of factories and big cities, water piping systems, electricity or utilities, those kind of things. But, for the setup for example of small companies, small production companies, trade companies, even agricultural companies to do agriculture, micro-finance can be a wonderful tool to help and develop the -- and empower people to make them sustainable in the creation -- through the creation of their own food and other needs. by Fred Matser |
Galsan Tschinag: This distinction between micro and macro seems superficial to me. You can get macro out of micro if there is a good administration. Example: western immigrants in the Mongolian steppe. But every macro can vanish into nothing if there is corruption in stead of justice. Example: Africa. |
Giora Feidman: What is development? Really what is development? To find a missile that take -- to take a bomb faster and far away? What is development? What is economic development? 28 wars in this planet in this moment I was told. This what a society accept as development? And look, by the way the medicine -- the medicine if some kind of results profit of this kind of development where-- we must try to say to make a better definition of the meaning of development. |
Gladman Chibememe: Micro-finance could be a good starting point. I think that it's a good strategy, because it is important to start small, small is beautiful. But once if you start small, you will be able to really upscale the financial system in such a way that it caters for large-scale development. At the same time, this micro-finance should be directed towards the local level institutions that are critically involved in development at grassroots level. Those institutions that are really into action, and if this is done, then we can talk about real real development, we can talk about a world in which developing countries are progressing towards - forward, because the real people who will be getting real resources to be able to change their lives, livelihoods at the right level which is the community level where action can be taken place. So, what we are saying is action needs to be supported and it has to be supported at the appropriate level by provision of micro-finance. Start small, but upscale is more initiatives into becoming big initiatives, micro-financial resources. So, we need to upscale. We need to move from small to big. Small is beautiful, but we need to know where the small resources or the little resources should be devoted to. We need to devote the resources at the appropriate level, which is the local level, the community level, the local authority level where action is taking place, where the people much need the help, where the people are in contact with the resources, natural resources for their exploitation and their use. |
Govindaswamy Hariramamurthi: How should the development of developing countries take place? Development is possible only when those who are not developed have access to capital. If it is only possible through micro-finance, I don’t think so. There has to be positive changes at the macro-level and also at the micro-level. You can’t choose between the two. If the developed world wants to remain developed, they must make it possible for those who do not have access to capital to produce more, to have more purchasing power, to buy more of meeting their needs. It requires wisdom on the part of those who are developed who look at the basic needs. Now this basic needs are often not getting addressed in the current system so naturally I think micro-finance and macro-finance both need to have their own respective roles. |
Hans-Peter Dürr: The first thing is that we must redefine development. In a Western sense, development means to intend possibilities of the material development for all the people of this world. It is much more important to try there, where this development would lead to a further human development, where a human would reach the next level of consciousness. That means not only that we should finance them, but first and foremost that we stop deforming their own wisdom that is inside of their cultures, that we help them to take their own way and to polish it. That would give every person the possibility really to develop all the abilities he possesses, his skills, on the emotional, intellectual and physical level. And by reaching this higher level of wisdom it could be possible for all to realize that in the end there is something in all cultures that binds us, and not only that, but to see that it corresponds with the sense of life. That would be a real development. The development we know today brings us to a way of life that destroys this sense and it turns us into consumers, and we can actually no more call us homo sapiens but the “homo economicus”, i.e. a consumer who consumes what is being thrown to him – eat! And then you must be satisfied and you don’t have to think yourself. |
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