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Aug 30, 2006 3:14:44 PM cite

What is the energy balance of renewable energy? Does it produce more energy than its production consumes?

by Energy

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Anthony Arnove: Well, the question of renewable energy is a very important one, but the important – one important thing is - at the outset is that our understanding of the possibilities of renewable energy has been systematically undercut by the existing framework of energy extraction and exploitation, which has limited any meaningful consideration of these alternatives because it would be economically threatening to the existing oil and power industries to consider renewable energy resources and alternative energy resources. So, I think we have barely begun to see the kind of investigation, intelligence, investment that it would take to truly begin to understand this question. But, for those who have begun to look at the question, it is clear that possibilities for solar and wind energy and other renewable forms of energy have tremendous promise and urgently need to be explored given the consequences [that are becoming] more and more clear everyday of the existing model.

by Anthony Arnove

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  by Anuradha Koirala 0 votes
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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Anuradha Koirala:

by Anuradha Koirala

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Anuradha Mittal: I think Simon Retallack who is also sitting on this table will have a better answer to this question.

by Anuradha Mittal

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Ashok Gangadean: This question raises the question of the model of renewable energies. And renewable energies I think has to be part of the consciousness of the culture that we are using. And renewable consciousness, self-sustaining consciousness, integral consciousness, holistic consciousness is a form of consciousness that sustains itself. And when we are living and making our culture in that integral, holistic, whole system, sensitivity, there will be renewability and abundance of the energy resource and a balancing. So, to me it’s not to balance it in the old model of culture that is inherently off balance and off kilter where there is a disparity between consumption and renewability and the needs and the consumption rates that are there in the marketplace. There has to be a radical re-shifting and rebalancing of the way we are in our culture, in our world. And with that shift and a renewable consciousness and culture, then there will be an appropriate balance in renewable energies in terms of our needs and our consumption patterns.

by Ashok Gangadean

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Audrey Kitagawa: I think we need to give these alternative forms of energy some leeway to develop and see how they are working out. Some of these ideas and innovations are new, and we should not stifle the creativity to try to make this a better world. There are some energy sources, however, that can be utilized that, for example, solar energy, that we don't have to be concerned about whether or not their production actually utilizes more energy. So the solar energy is a currently existing renewable resource that we need to look at more seriously. So it would depend on the kind of renewable energies that we are talking about that are hopefully increasingly coming into being and actually studying to see whether or not they are in fact more efficient than what we currently have, that we are utilizing.

by Audrey Kitagawa

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Avi Primor: In some sectors yes but not in all. What concerns solar energy I would definitely say yes. The production of solar energy isn't expensive, it is very cheap. The devices are expensive. That's the problem. Today there are factories which can be run only with solar energy. Their machines could work with solar energy alone. But the devices are very, very expensive. That's why an entrepreneur who wants to use solar energy has to invest so much money that he spends more money for energy for the first ten years as he would spend for oil. But ten years later he gets the energy for free. The question is if an entrepreneur can afford it today to invest a lot of money before it comes back to him. Therefore new machines need to be developed which could be less expensive but that is also a question of what we do and how much we produce. If we produce a lot of solar energy and if we produce a lot of devices for the production of solar energy then it will become much cheaper and it won't be comparable to oil. It'll be much cheaper but we have to invest in it.

by Avi Primor

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Benjamin Fahrer: Renewable energies, we need to look at the energies that we are talking about. It is a myth that solar consumes more energy in manufacturing of the photovoltaic panels that they actually generate in our lifetime, and now that solar has been proven as an efficient use of energy, we can see that after seven years they have then made up the energy that was used in their manufacturing. And assist through the new technologies that have come about, and we’re looking at micro hydro, a small microturbines that we can place of and divert a small amount of water to spin a turbine, very simple parts, same with wind, very simple parts that can generate power. And if kept up in a very good maintenance and with continued observance of what’s working and using these renewable energies in there most efficient way. Then, they definitely can produce a lot more energy than it took to consume them. And we should switch a lot, we should take the limited amount of oil that we have and conventional energies to manufacture this renewable energies, to manufacture the PV panels, and to manufacture the microhydro and wind turbines. But first, we need reduce again our consumption because there’s no way that renewable energies can meet the needs of our consumption. Be more efficient with ourselves as well, energy efficiency.

by Benjamin Fahrer

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Benson Venegas: Yes. The answear is clear. The demand of energy is growing because the population is growing and because the economy is growing. The economical growth leads to more consumption of energy and that is why they provoque an imbalance of energy. Some realistic previsions foresee that perhaps in 2030 or 2050 we will have finished with our ressources of petroleum. Some countries have already progressed in this sense and created alternative energies and in this moment the use of bioenergetic energy as a source is being presented. But this is a problem because the use of bioenergetic sources may provoque the destruction of forests or fields that will lead to other problems for teh environment that haven’t been considered in the economical analyses. Thus we have to revise those paradigms. The most practical and easy way in short time is to use energy efficiently. We have to create a culture, an education, civilization and population that makes an intelligent use of energy. Cars are wasting so much energy. 95 % are getting lost in the process. That is why we have to revise our concepts... .

by Benson Venegas

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Bianca Jagger: Answertext will be available soon.

by Bianca Jagger

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Bill Joy: Yes. And in fact, even your car, if you drive it even a few thousand miles it produces an enormous amount of CO2 and the amount of energy that went into the car would be paid back very quickly by buying a more energy efficient car. If we look at wind, solar, tide, wave, geothermal, all these things are quite enormously energy positive. Biofuels like ethanol produced from sugar cane, very energy positive. Perhaps the only renewable fuel that can be produced that’s close to neutral in its energy balance is ethanol made from corn because that takes so much energy input. But if you collocate an ethanol plant with a gasification plant that’s taking other biomass and produce sin gas, basically a kind of a natural gas from it, that process which has a positive energy balance produces waste heat and you can use the waste heat and mate those two processes together so that they are more net energy out than they consume. So you should be very optimistic about renewable energy because renewable energy is truly free of need for these external energy sources.

by Bill Joy

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Bora Cosic: I don’t know. However logically, the sum of energy that is being spent on the production of something must be smaller then the sum of produced. In other situation it comes to crazy concept, I believe to be invented in socialism. I remember that it was inn saying “we gained deficit”. Maybe in that paradox is the solution, we must not gain deficit by producing anything.

by Bora Cosic

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Brian J. Weller: Well, let’s see. It’s a tricky question. I think increasingly the answer is less and less. I mean, for example, using timers we can recharge batteries with electricity from wind farms during low demand hours, which basically are from 1:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. We can save the equivalent of like 50 gallons of gasoline, just the energy equivalent. Some of the other sort of strategies that I’d like to talk about. Short distance driving using gas and electric hybrids can help and the additional storage from batteries and that plug-in capacity. We can cut U.S. gas consumption between 20 and 70 percent, but this requires a nationwide effort. As I mentioned in an earlier answer, this recent movie “Who Killed the Electric Car?” is a documentary movie that charts what actually happened in the 1970s into the early 1980s. That’s something that we have to get back to. So, as we move towards a fully renewable energy economy, I think the answer is going to be less and less. The consumption of energy for what it produces, that equation will get better. Basically, 40 million Europeans are now getting their residential electricity from wind farms. European Wind Energy Association projects reckons that by the year 2020 the number of Europeans will be up to about 195 million, which is about half the population will be getting their energy domestically from renewables. So, that’s the way to go.

by Brian J. Weller

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Catherine David: Its a question for the specialists. Concerning solar energie it seems to me that the production of solar energie is not too pricy and that it also does not pollutes very much so the positive balance predominates. I don't know anything about the other renewable energies but I hope the positive balance also predominates if not its a history à la Jacques Tati.

by Catherine David

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

China Keitetsi: Answertext will be available soon.

by China Keitetsi

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Constantin von Barloewen: Absolutely. If you think about what is practicable today, for example cleaning water to drinking water quality by nuclear energy, you can assume that this is not inversely proportional. The same is true for wind energy and for solar energy on the whole. We have to keep track of these necessities. In the financial market there are already collective investment schemes, which invest in renewable energies, not only in natural resources, but also in solar energy and other energy forms. These schemes have still had increments in the last four to six years in the global share market. This means that there is obviously an economic need for renewable energies on the global capital market. Advantage should be taken from this. The invested money should be used in a reasonable way. There are possibilities to raise money for energy saving resources. Synergies should be found out between the capital market and the technical possibilities of energy production.

by Constantin von Barloewen

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Dedi Baron: Answertext will be available soon.

by Dedi Baron

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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Donato Bayu Bay Bumacas: For me renewable energies refers to maximizing the nature’s resources to produce energy like the sun, solar from sun, micro-hydro from the water and wind -- wind, it can produce energy. For me the balance should be designing or producing an energy from these sources that would benefit equally from the consumers, and it should be avoided that this energy which are being produced from these natural energies should not be over-consuming. So there should be really equal balance from the amount of energy being produced and the consumers in order to maintain balance. We have micro-hydro, for instance, in our place. Since it is oftentimes being destroyed because the power that it produces is not enough to the consumption of the communities and communities tend to overload, it’s led to the destruction of the micro-hydro, and that's not the balance. Another point is I think we really need a care for this natural…

by Donato Bayu Bay Bumacas

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  by Dritëro Kasapi 0 votes
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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Dritëro Kasapi:

by Dritëro Kasapi

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  by Eddie Glaude 0 votes
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Sep 9, 2006 2:55:00 PM cite

Eddie Glaude:

by Eddie Glaude

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