Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Helena Norberg-Hodge: Now we're at a point where perhaps all Chinese want a car. Why do they want a car? I have witnessed personally the psychological pressures put on people that have made them feel that if they remain in a more traditional lifestyle they are backward, they are stupid, they are inferior. I have seen how this psychological pressure particularly on young children leads to a fervent, a deep psychological need to identify with the urban car-based consumer culture. So if we want to look at why the Chinese want cars we need to understand the psychology, the psychology of the pressure to modernize. In addition we need to look at how governments are subsidizing an infrastructure subsidizing energy production, subsidizing an expansion of the car economy, making it seemingly possible for everyone to have a car. This is an extremely short-sighted approach that can only lead to further breakdown. In every country now the cars are crowding the roads to such an extent that if you calculate the amount of time you spend to earn the money to pay for the car, to pay for the repairs to pay for the fuel and you then look at how much time you've spent to earn the money to move yourself along the road and add that time to the time that you are traveling you'll find that you're often not traveling faster than you would by bicycle or by horse. So these calculations need to be added to the understanding of why people around the world both want cars and are forced into a dependence on cars often against their will.

by Helena Norberg-Hodge

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Homero Aridjis: What would happen if all Chinese people wanted a car? Well, it would simply be the delirium of global contamination, the same that would happen if every Indian had a car.

by Homero Aridjis

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Jerry Mander: My colleague next to me here says, “Why Chinese people?” That’s a very good opening. Yeah, you know, why do we all want a car? It’s perfectly normal for a country like China to want to have the proof of the industrial system that we’ve already overused and created bloated economic consumption models for, and created a society based on the image of wealth accumulation, commodity accumulation. Why should we tell China not to do that? But, of course, if Chinese people all get a car, are we going to just exacerbate the ecological crisis? In fact, it’s probably impossible for China to grow into that kind of consumption model the planet just cannot stand. So, if that’s true, do we have a right to hoard the rest of the resources on the planet the way we have up to now? What we obviously need is a complete readjustment of a global economic system toward a much more equitable division of resources and a sharing of the products of nature, so that it’s kept in steady state without depleting it. I’ve begun to call it an economic sufficiency, which is not based on growth, not based upon ever-increasing consumption, but based upon a universal level of sustainability, sufficiency and equity. By sufficiency I mean a level of a standard of living by which people have the things that they really need, but not a lot more, so that other people who don’t have enough can have a greater ability to survive. Now, we’re a long way from achieving anything like that, but it’s important to start talking about it.

by Jerry Mander

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Jesper Green: If all Chinese people really want a car then we are really screwed. Or we have let them screw the ecological balance of the ecosystem. And then you could say, oh, that’s hypocrisy! Yeah, maybe it is. But why should we let them make the same mistakes that we made? Why let them start an ecological disaster just because we have been part of it and learned oh, this is not a good thing to do and then we say oh, they have to learn for themselves that it’s not a good thing to do and by that dooming ourselves. So I think that would happen if all Chinese people wanted a car. If every Chinese wanted a car then we should say that everybody in the western world, India, Russia, should sell half their car park. They wouldn’t help the ecological system at all but it would give some kind of, okay, we have giving something up so you can give something up too. People are like that, kids.

by Jesper Green

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Jodie Evans: Well all Chinese people can want a car. But wants and what we get are two different things. I think that there becomes a point where if every Chinese person wanted a car what's the economic burden, what’s the capacity and if everybody had a car it would be unsustainable in many other ways. So there's a difference between want and have, want and need so it's a strange question. The question of satisfying all wants creates an unsatisfying result. If the question is trying to say how those in the West dictate do what can happen in China because everybody in the West has a car and therefore they're going to deny the Chinese their cars. I think at some point hopefully what we create to move around in, what the cars become. That they become more hybrids, they become lighter, they become smarter everyone can have a car. But then how does that function as far as traffic goes and all the other things that make it so it's not something that someone wants; because it’s an inconvenience, it’s a tax on the world, it's a violation to the feelings of sustainability they have. So there's – it’s a strange question that I’m not so sure what he's trying to evoke as an answer.

by Jodie Evans

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

John Gage: The implication of a rapidly growing Chinese middle class that purchases a car, whereby a car -- bringing a car similar to the ones that we have today, well, what do we have today? We have in essence carriages, wagons with motors added to them. We just got rid of the horses. We kept the same overall structure of the vehicle and we added a heavy engine. A heavy engine requires a heavier frame, which requires a heavier engine, which requires a heavier frame. So, we have evolved these devices we call cars, which are at the base badly designed, immensely wasteful and could, in fact, be substituted for by devices which have enormous structural strength, have half or a third the weight of today’s vehicles, and are fueled and propelled with far more efficient tires, drive trains and systems, which today in the car of today in the wealthy world utilizes 2% to 3% of the energy in the gas tank to actually move the driver. The rest is lost in moving the weight of the frame and the weight of the engine, lost in heat and friction. We have devised an enormously sophisticated set of very badly designed vehicles just to move one person from place to another. So, that’s not the car, which will serve as the foundation for motion, for movement in China. The Chinese know this. Today, American automobile manufacturers cannot meet the ecological standards in China for a vehicle. That means the Americans can’t sell cars in China because they don’t meet the standards of China. That’s a telling statement of economic and industrial rigidities that are revealed [audio ends].

by John Gage

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Jonathan Granoff: What if all the people in Amsterdam - what if all the people in Amsterdam decide to get cars? In Amsterdam, you don't have a lot of cars, you have a lot of bicycles. There's a wisdom in the bicycles. There's a wisdom in the bicycles in Copenhagen. If you've ever been to Mexico City, on a bad day you can hardly breathe the air because there's so many cars, and so much congestion, so much traffic, so much waste of gas, and so much cost in health. If all the Chinese people want cars and get cars, with the kind of cars we have today, we're going to have an ecological crisis. And on the other hand, possibly cars will improve in their engineering, their efficiencies, and their capacity to run on different fuel systems. I think it's time that we started thinking seriously about alternative ways of transporting ourselves, improving mass transit, more bicycle use in our cities, creating a culture of pride in ecological responsibility, rather than pride, in - you know, how glossy your car looks. What if all the Chinese people want a car, what if all the Chinese people get a car. I think we'll have a serious situation if all the Chinese people want cars and can't get them. I think we'll have an even more serious problem if all the Chinese people want cars, we don't change the technology, and they get them. It's time that changed the aspirations and the currency of value as a person from the more you have, the better you are, to the better you are as a person, the better you are.

by Jonathan Granoff

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Jonathan Meese: Every man may want what he wants. This is fun. Every man is entitled to have everything. Prohibitions do not make sense. It is neccessary to play the game ultimately, to open everything, to allow everything, make everything possible.

by Jonathan Meese

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Jonathan Stack: The question isn't what if they want a car; I think the question is what if they get a car. I assume, I have no reason not to, that I don't know of all Chinese, but I assume the majority would want cars, they want better cars than the ones they have and they want more of them when they've got a better car. They are probably no different from most people in this planet who want the ability to transport themselves from A to B as they choose to, the liberties and freedoms that come with a car. The problem of course is when everybody gets a car, are there roads enough to carry people so that you are not just stuck in traffic jams out there, and b, is the pollution caused by the ridiculous quality of most modern vehicles going to destroy the planet so much that in fact, we'll run out of whatever the tipping point is or the end point is for fuel will be reached. I have always been saying that we are all out there selling the dream of consumption and I just -- the flipside of it is what kind of world are we going to create by making the ability to consume or readily consume all goods universal. What needs to happen is that we need to find a better sharing and balancing of wealth because we in the West, who are the leaders of consumption, are setting a terrible example for those who up till now have not had the same opportunities. And those opportunities are going to come because the marketplace is a very powerful engine, it is going to create the products that the consumer desires and car is one of them. I guess my only hope is that the negative results of this inspire positive solutions or alternatives.

by Jonathan Stack

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

José Manuel Prieto: Well, all the chinese citizens should be asked, if they would like to have a car. This is a hypothetical question. I believe that [] this couldn’t happen, and therefore the question could as well be extended to the entire earth. What would happen if all the citizens of the world would like to have a car? I think, to imagine that the future will be full of cars is incorrect. [....] This question points out the possible negative impact that China would have if it was motorized at the same level as, e.g. the United States, which without a doubt [] the current situation of oil and the ecological impact that car emissions have. To think something like that would be negative, but I believe that it’s not worthwhile to extend a current option to the future, to imagine a future full of cars. In a hundred years this could change essentially. And I’m almost sure that the same technology will deliver a solution to a such a question. I don’t think that there is space for panic, although it is without a doubt an issue where it is worthwile to debate and imagine solutions and in this case it is an intelectual exercise. I think, that is what I would say about this question.

by José Manuel Prieto

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Kailash Satyarthi: First of all, we should ask ourselves what is bad in it if the Chinese -- each Chinese person want a car. And I would say that it’s only the China which can produce car for each of their person, each of their citizens one day because they can produce the cheapest cars in the world. And secondly, it is China alone, which can also invent some way out to run those cars with the cheap energy source. I am sure that they can invent the technology which is much more friendly to Chinese people as well as to the whole world. But on the other hand, definitely for time being, there could be some sort of tensions in procuring more oil from the oil producing countries between India and China, between China and rest of the world. So, that is a procedure, that is a process which you cannot ignore. But definitely, the China is the one who is going to have car, each person will have car one day with better petroleum consumption or probably solar energy or whatever, but they will invent.

by Kailash Satyarthi

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Kamal Boullata:

by Kamal Boullata

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Kigge Hvid: Hi Andrew. Look, if all humans in China want a car, then my position is, they must have one. Why should it be so that all of us in the west, who love cars, who love our car, must have one, while the Chinese or the Indians for that matter, should not have one? But then we have a problem.[She does not clarify what the problem is] We know that if there come billions of new cars, if all the Chinese, all the Indians want a car – then what should we do? We must find a solution. Then we need to make cars, which firstly are produced without affecting the environment. And secondly they are riding on wind power, when they are actually driving around the roads. It is possible, we have never have a better time in the world to solve all the great problems that surround us. We have knowledge, we have technology, the means of communication. We have the whole lot. So it is simply now we must get started, making sure solutions are created that actually makes it possible for all the Chinese people to get a car. Deep down it is actually the fact, that the rest of us love our cars. Of course a different thing one could do is to strengthen public transportation so much and make it so attractive, so not everyone want to have a car. But again I think it is a question about innovation, I think it is a question about using the knowledgeable and technological state we actually have. And then make sure it is actually used for securing that the things we do, the things we produce, the things we draw, the things we design, the things we manufacture for the world, are made and used in a way so they do not ruin the environment.

by Kigge Hvid

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Lesego Rampolokeng: You know, I suppose that apart from the inherent racism of this question, which essentially is suggesting that we have more Chinese people than would render things completely safe for us if they, each of them -- I would think, not just wanted a car but acquire a car. The thing is the Chinese people are not a homogenous glob. They are being rendered inhuman here by being made to represent a potential threat to life as we know it should they get it within their heads, within themselves to want a vehicle. Wanting a car counts for nothing. What if everybody wanted a dollar in their pocket? But, the idea is that if they just did not want a car only and stop there, but if they acquired a car, what dimensions of destruction could come down upon the earth based on the pollution factor of those vehicles that they would then have based on the fact that space as we know it would be shrunken totally and completely out of proportion. What if every Chinese person wanted a car, what if every German person wanted this or that, that I think is a question that disguises much more than I think is getting thrown to the surface. If the question is what would happen if every Chinese person had a car, if that is the question [audio ends]

by Lesego Rampolokeng

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Leung Ping-Kwan: Well, I think in this question, the word Chinese is symbolic. It doesn’t just does mean Chinese, I mean, we can rephrase the question in many ways like, what if all German people want a second car? Or what if all people from United States want a first car? So, it’s not just the problem of the Chinese but, this should be the responsibility of everybody in the world and whether we want more of what we do not have or more of what we already have. Of course, the Chinese is symbolic or representative in a certain way because China has a large -- developing country and in the past, all of the Chinese, we use bicycle and now we’re moving into the spirit of industrialization and modernization, a lot of Chinese family will want a car. And of course, they will create problems in terms of the ecology, in terms of energy and so on. But, I think the question should be how do we face, -- because even if the Chinese people, if not all Chinese people want a car there could still be oil problem, energy problems in the world. So the problem will be like, how the world as a whole intended to face this kind of problem? How to limit ones need? How to have more control? And how to save energy? And how not to have more and more but have less and less?

by Leung Ping-Kwan

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Lijun Fang: If every Chinese people wants a car, there would be over 1.3 billion more cars in the world. Not only Chinese, but also billions of Indians, Cambodian, Indonesian, Malaysian and all other people may want a car. The problem is not how many people want a car, but that the door to human desires has been opened interminably. How can we close the door again after it is open to such infinite possessive desires?

by Lijun Fang

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Lillian Holt: Yes, what if all Chinese people want a car? That’s an amazing scenario. I doubt that everyone literally could have a car, but given the fact that there’s a billion people in the area, about, regardless, even a percentage of that is going to have some sort of probably catastrophic effect on oil and oil production. And hopefully, in the end, what turns out to be the end is hopefully a new beginning. And maybe it might precipitate the crisis that is ultimately coming or is even required immediately, I might say, sadly, in order to bring about some possibility of alternative uses of energy. We may be forced to look at exactly how we live and the way we just take anything for granted and expect that nothing will every run out. And maybe it’s only when this crisis comes about that we actually do something about the situation.

by Lillian Holt

Sep 9, 2006 2:20:00 PM cite

Livingstone Maluleke: This will lead into a chaotic situation if everyone in the country owns a car. This would mean there will be shortage of the road surface. There will a shortage of parking and of course there may be[influence of the accidents rate that may go very high. But at the same time, this will also create issues related to global warming because then there will a depletion of resources. More resources like petrol, diesel would be needed so that there will be -- to meet this kind of a situation. Also, there will be lot of pollution as a result of the many vehicles that will be going around using petrol, going around and indeed there will be pollution as such. Also the cars that will cause a lot of accidents will also be one other element that would be observed in this scenario. Therefore, it is not a very good thing that the Chinese wished to have a car at least; but if the situation allows, the minimal use of motor vehicles in a country is also encouraged.

by Livingstone Maluleke