Apr 10, 2007 11:42:48 PM cite

I'm convinced that the current physiocratic system named "ordre ?naturell?" is already some kind of perfectly perverted love and can be only replaced by true love i. e. kind of "ordre du coeur"...

by zombie passage

Apr 10, 2007 9:28:49 PM cite

what is after capitalism? what was before capitalism? the current crop of individuals now trying to make a change in the world that are from the beast itself (usa) have grown up capitalists. they were born into it. from the time they pass through that birth canal they are exposed to and force fed ideologies that many do not question. the foundations that capitalism rests on is only as old as the people "in charge" right now. a process of un-learning would have to take place. i suppose there would be many methods which one could practice that would set them on the right track. i dont know. i need coffe.....

by strugglerschoice

Apr 2, 2007 4:23:37 PM cite

capatilism is long dead my friends they have now invented a new word for it, its called industrialism the new weapon of the greedy, and everytime you buy something you do nothing but add to it, yet you can't live without buying a nice little carousel

by Muggy

Mar 30, 2007 11:00:16 PM cite

We will soon invent AI and it will rule us.

by Pavel Shershnev

Mar 25, 2007 4:16:29 PM cite

i think the most people don't think about discussing capitalism. the system is out of bounds. on the other hand capitalism destroys everything humanists have fought for. capitalism itself will lead to a great war and will never come back...

by heli82

Mar 22, 2007 9:46:11 PM cite

I do think that one has to understand that neither Capitalism nor any other Monetary System based on current values like e.g. gold or silver will create a fair environment for the growth of mankind.

by hope4

Mar 21, 2007 4:46:41 PM cite

Capitalism and socialism are systems to organise a world. I don't think we can decide rationally "What's after capitalism?" until we are clear what purpose we want the "new" system to meet. Which comes down to deciding what sort of world we want. I have done a lot of work with vision building (There is an article on www.nickheap.co.uk) and discovered that when there is enough trust and connection, people agree about what they want. This works with teams and organisations. It ought to work globally. A nice question might be, "It's a Wednesday in 10 years time and as you listen to the news on the radio you think this is amazing, all the things I wanted to happen are happening. What would you be hearing?" So, what would you be hearing? What sort of world do you want? When we know this, we will know what system we need to deliver it.

by nickheap

Mar 19, 2007 7:11:23 PM cite

It seems to me that a question such as what comes after capitalism suggests that we have already maximised the benefits of capitalism. We should be asking the questions that perhaps generations before us thought would be answered with the emergence of modern industrial nations: how can capitalism make our lives better? I have seen that some people have mentioned this idea that their needs to be a refocus on how capitalism is practised. It is unfathomable that large amounts of wealth that can be ammassed by individuals while others can literally starve to death. Yet these people with so much feel no responsibility because they have 'earned' their money. Let's start big: the top-flight footballer who plays two games a week and then practices another 4 days a week from about 9:30 to 12:00 can earn anywhere from about 10,000 euros to 100,000+ euros. Of course he earns that money. But we don't even need to be that extreme. The average person earning an average wage is better off than most of the world's citizens. And I appreciate that poverty is relative but there are millions, if not billions, livingin absolute poverty - with absolutely nothing. In general we, the ordinary people, are everything that is wrong with capitalism. We buy into the lifestyle without putting demands on how it should function. Do we question where the products that we consume on a daily basis (food/clothing/etc.) come from. Do we question why production costs which are so low should reap such big turnovers? Why is that when we say workers should be paid a fair wage that companies try to neutralise our protests by claiming higher wages would mean higher retail prices. We should be saying: No...higher wages should mean less profit for you extremely wealthy directors and shareholders...the chocolate I buy will now be fairtrade chocolate...I will not buy Ronaldinho's replica Barca jersey for 70 euros so he can earn a fortune. We should be asking ourselves why has capitalism become an excuse for exploitation. There is nothing wrong with maximising profit as long as social consciousness is at the base of this concept. Capitalism is still young and as such is typically selfish but hopefully it will continue to grow and mature. However, to do that capitalism needs the active participation of the people...we cannot sit by idly and hope for the emergence of good leaders with a strong sense of social responsibility to adopt better fairer economic policies...history has proved that is futile. We need to put demands on our leaders, on corporations and on consumers to ensure that all society (not just our city, county, state or country) receives a fair deal. We should not make the mistake that capitalism is inevitable, though that may be the case for the forseeable future. We have to ensure that 'ethical capitalism' comes to fruition and that the world does not become disillusioned with an economic system that actually can give people a good deal. I think the question we should be asking and trying our hardest to influence is: What will capitalism be when it grows up?

by retter13

Feb 25, 2007 2:41:18 PM cite

It is obvious that the present prevailing economic system is not able to sustain itself, it is self-destructive (e.g. see the UN-report on climatic change). "Capitalism" is not based upon the common good of all and everything, including nature, but on money as a value in itself - apart from its purpose of allowing the exchange of goods and services - and the belief (myth) that by serving one's own interest the whole is served best (Darwin, Adam Smith). We can observe right now that this myth is not true. Humanity is challenging itself right now to find a new answer. The answer to the posed question cannot be found in economic terms. The root of the problems we are facing as humanity lies in our basic prevailing belief system, which is: we are all separate physical beings, we have to fight for survival, we are superior to nature and rule over the earth and have a right to do whatever we want. This belief system is basically a Western one. If that is so what then is a saving belief system? We are all spiritual beings and one by virtue of our intrinsic nature and origin. Life upon earth is ultimately meant to manifest our spiritual nature of oneness, beauty, abundance, love. We understand more and more that nature is an infinitely complex undertaking of cooperation and connectedness, which to destroy we are presently doing our best. It is our choice to learn from our past mistakes and change our destructive belief systems. It is our choice to destroy our habitat and future or to create a new beautiful world expressive of our true nature. Capitalism would then be replaced by a system of intensiv cooperation and caring and respect for each person and thing in this world. The three capital values "freedom, equality, fraternity" would finally find universal expression.

by Sirius

Feb 23, 2007 11:23:45 PM cite

YOUR GARDEN! - It satisfies all your primary basic needs ... eating, drinking, fresh air. Invite some friends or have your family there - the basic need of socialisation is staisfied. Should you not like the term YOUR garden, since it implies ownership ... well, go in everyones's garden - NATURE. Your basic needs can be satisfied there as well!

by __anon_70489252

Feb 21, 2007 4:14:21 PM cite

I hear some people saying: “Then comes the really times of freedom and socialism…” (Sorry for my laughter about this matter – like I heard that twenty-five years too long.) Other people I hear asking: “What the hell is capitalism? What capitalism?” - You knows, if someone is sleeping deep, do not wake up without a special danger! And other people mean: “After that capitalism will comes some other capitalism and so on and so on. The evolution herself is it, what we call capitalism, when we are feeling at a loss, and what we call performance or luck with pleasure, when we are favoured. You can proof that by the same persons, if you want.” I like to think, that is the best argumentation, especially when we imagine our self the real future develops similar like the circumstances in the Star-Trek-Universe in imagination. General could be watched in the most of science fiction literature and movies, the social circumstances are nearer to the idealized visions of socialism as real capitalism, we all know from our ones experiences. But we should not forget: Visions are that, wishes at best, not reality-formed circumstances. When we remind us about the fact, that only the smaller half of all people in our society is working for the subsistence of their selves while the other half can live from produced surplus, so we can see, that in future this part will growing more and more. The members of society, who can claimed, they would be exploited from the others, will be dwindling away in times. So can the society change herself from capitalism to beautiful-ism - if you want so! But only, if there goes not too much revolutions between.

by Edgar

Feb 8, 2007 3:01:56 AM cite

Who ever said that what we have now is capitalism, whatever that means, since in so many decisions and activities around the world, full capitalism is obviously not ruling. When and where can for instance a Brittish citizen sell his citizenship to an interested Argentinian at an expensive price and then go out and buy himself a cheap Tanzania citizenship, so that he can invest his profits in that land in order to really push it forward so that his grandchildren can inherit a fortune? After the whatever we now have, hopefully we could have something better… if we just keep working at whatever we have, and forget the notion that it just can just be replaced with something else, only supposedly something better.

by Per Kurowski

Jan 30, 2007 11:09:42 PM cite

We are already well along in entering a new kind of economy based not on the scarcity of things but the scarcity of something we each need and desire, namely attention from other human beings. This divides people into two classes, which can crudely be referred to as stars and fans. I have been arguing this for quite awhile now. See goldhaber.org and references there. The mistake made by most contributors to this dialogue is to see the only possiblities as capitalism and socialism; that might be neat, but why should it be? Dyadic class systems existed before capitalism, and new ones can exist after it. Is this progressive? Not necessarily, since progress is always a question of what is measured. But there are definitely some ways in which the Attention Economy will be/already is better.

by mgoldh

Jan 29, 2007 8:04:46 PM cite

The problem with a question like this is that it often forces those who respond to do so from one side of a two-sided issue. The responses will often be predictable based on one's captalist or socialist affiliations. what is worth remembering, and I present this from within a progressively liberal perspective, is that civilization and society owe their existence to the exchange of goods between parties and the abilitiy to shape and alter this system to satify each group's potential needs. Individual societies have a responsibility to sustain theirselves first, followed by a moral obligation to positively affect those outside their direct sphere of influence. These are the pronciples established through the limited and narrowly applied benevolence of American foreign policy as well as the underlying purpose of the United Nations. Capitalism cannot fade away and cannot be replace by any other system of governence. it is the method through which nations and peoples aquire the necessary goods and services to survive which would otherwise be inaccessible to them without it. Capitalism is as vital to the progression of humanity as is sufficient food and clean drinking water. The question we should really be asking is, "How can we make capitalism work better?"

by dac7

Jan 28, 2007 5:48:49 PM cite

Capitalism has several different meanings. "After capitalism" implies capitalislm meaning the current system. There is no way to know how government and the economy will change. The system can continue indefinitely without any "after". Fred Foldvary

by foldvary

Jan 28, 2007 12:24:19 AM cite

Capitalism as Communism and other ways to conduct human life and activities are concepts that have intrinsic values that relate to a populace in a time frame. But the common denominator in the downfall of these systems is corruption for personal greed, advancement, or power. Thus, one must look to the spiritual or ethical evolution of Man. By my reconning, we're not doing doing so well. In spite of centuries of religious support (?), laws to govern the people for order and justice, there remains hate, suspicion, deceit, Us versus Them mentality, wars conducted for revenge or hidden agendas masked as noble causes, lack of concern or charity for the poorest of people..... How to change the heart and soul of one man so that he truely sees? How to change many hearts and souls so that they respond honestly, ethically to solve problems? We are certainly heading for a major crisis, and crisis has, in the past, propelled us to the next stage of existance. However, what's left after we trash the place? The environment is going downhill pretty fast now. When nuclear devices are set off in the Middle East, what do you think is going to be left to work with?

by marianne