Register or Login

Question

23 responses | 1 vote

May 18, 2008 12:21:36 AM cite

What do you think of anarcho-primitivism?

by Question Everything

Please login to rate.

Jul 15, 2008 3:10:31 AM cite

Those individuals endorsing Anarcho-Primitivism have made several unjustified assumptions about primitive societies, that are the basis of their ideology. They cite the shift from Hunter Gatherers to Agricultural substistance as the root of their claimed deficiencies of modern society. Social organization and stratification occurs naturally when a number of individuals come together to form a group, and is not imposed by a few to gain control, but by the group to provide protection from predation and a more stable supply of food and shelter for all members of the group. Division of labor and specilization is a normal development as each individual discovers their talents and abilities. Acquiring knowledge and skills is necessary for survival and not everyone can master all skills. totalitarian relationships were not a hallmark of early domestication as the land was occupied and held by the comunity for the comunity. Gender distinctions are biological and have nothing to do with civilization, they may be enhanced by some societies but are not created by them. Their assessment of early human life is incorrect, and thier proposed course of action is equally untenable. I must agree with Noam Chomsky in that "What they are calling for is the worst mass genocide in Human history". Not only are they advocating mass genocide but if they live as they propose they will be burying more and more babies and children as the mortality rate increases. To truly embrace their ideals they must accept this as they must abandon modern medical technology. However the few who survive to adulthood will be relatively healthy but it is unlikely that they will need to deal with the afflictions of the elderly as few if any will live past 40 years. they advocate the abandonment of society, technology, civilization and language. They object to symbolic culture but any language is the basis for this, and therefore must be abandon. They deem these institutions as totalitarian and oppressive, yet seek to impose limits on what an individuel can do. There can be no inquiry as to the nature or reason for things, no experimentation to gain knowledge, no modification of the environment or objects found there. This bringe me to speculate what would they do if someone was found investigating a phenomenom in nature, trying to sharpen a stone to make a better tool or assigning special sounds for better comunication. someone would need to kill him as even exile would not do as his very existance would violate their principles. These people are not satisfied to adopt their ideas and go of and live in the wild, but seek to impose their world view on others and are therefore guilty of attempting the same control over others that they object to. Which brings me to the conclusion that this is not a real movment where people actually intend to live this way but a construct by an academic searching for something to publish, See my comment 'Off on another Rant' May 16 '08, creating a nonsensical world view based on distorted interpretations of archaeology and anthropology. I have seen no reports of groups re-wilding and living this way, but then outside observers would not be alowed as they would disturbe the simplistic lifestyle. Actually this is a common theme in Science Fiction where a technologically advanced society encounters a primitive one with the resulting interaction, perhaps this is the source of this fiction. There seem to be several academics who are in on it, to keep things stired up and capture the imagination of thousands too unsophisticated to see the joke. I would certainly expect the Anarcho-Primitivists to vigorously defend their research and publications, after all this is their meal ticket to the good life with book royalties and speaker fees. Long Live anarcho-Primitivism, there is tremendous entertainment value here if nothing else.

by thedoc

Please login to rate.

Jun 15, 2008 7:29:48 PM cite

i think they are creatively asking very important questions. They may not come to answers i like, but that is less important than truly addressing the questions. i may like sustainable technologies, but at least the anarcho-primitives are asking "Which technologies (if any) are sustainable? Which mining is sustainable? Which hierarchies and social injustices are sustainable? Which vocational specializations do not lead to isolation, anomie, drug abuse, ruling classes, and school shootings?" . Empires like the ones we live in are inherently dissatisfying for the working masses, and every one so far destroys its environment. Tribes are inherently satisfying for all their members and are proven sustainable for their environment. Tribal members work less, spend more time on art & music, have better family relations, and less neuroses, ulcers, heart attacks, cancers, domestic violence, and road rage. . Humans had a long run of neolithic success before the relatively recent pyramid scheme of empires and economies that now threatens us with extinction. This is *so* important to remember, as a repudiation of the false and cynical dog-eat-dog spin that mischaracterizes human nature, and anarcho-primitives remember this to us all. They are part of the colorful pro-living anti-corporateglobalization carnival so well described by Naomi Klein, the international rainbow uprising of decentralized civil society. As the chant near the giant puppets says, Another World Is Possible. Many, in fact, and the anarcho-primitives point to one better than the overheated one the global corporations and their war machines are dragging us (minus many species of us) into. Their utopia may not be my hope, but i applaud them for opposing the dystopia sold on television. It is crucial to support the choices of the poor, of the indigenous, and of other species, and centralization of power eliminates these choices. . "Anybody not neck-deep in denial must by now understand that the global economy is utterly incompatible with life... What does it mean when the vast majority of people spend the vast majority of their waking hours doing things they'd rather not do? The culture itself convinced me something was wrong, by being so extraordinarily destructive of human happiness and, far more importantly, the world itself... ...I'm in love. With salmon, with trees outside my window, with baby lampreys living in sandy stream bottoms, with slender salamanders crawling through the duff. And if you love, you act to defend your beloved. Of course results matter to you, but they don't matter to whether you make the effort. You don't simply hope your beloved survives and thrives. You do what it takes. If my love doesn't cause me to protect those I love, it's not love. And if I don't act to protect my landbase, I'm not fully human", says anarcho-primitivist Derrick Jensen.

by zotlynn

Please login to rate.

Jun 2, 2008 5:37:47 AM cite

Zotlynn, Define 'Anarcho-Primitivism' if you can.

by thedoc

Please login to rate.

Anarcho-Primitivism

Jul 13, 2008 7:21:34 AM cite

Heya Doc, some of us out here would still like to hear your answer to the question if you can. Definitions are out there if you need them - try looking up John Zerzan, the Institute for Social Ecology, Chaia Heller, Murray Bookchin, and Derrick Jensen. Or try asking your favorite references or reference librarians to help lead you to definitions (only reason i won't give you one is that it is somebody else's ideology, not mine to define). What do you think of Anarcho-Primitivism?

by zotlynn

Please login to rate.

Self-determination for All Peoples

Jun 15, 2008 10:24:10 PM cite

i will not ask you to violate your principles, and please do not ask us to violate our principles. One principle i adhere to is "Self-determination for All Peoples", which means every group may make their own political and economic decisions. It also means every group, and every individual, may define themselves, and delineate their own identity. As i am not an anarcho-primitive, it is not for me to impose a definition upon others. Please ask the anarcho-primitives to define it for you, or try a dictionary, if you need a definition. Let each self-identify, and let all of us respect and honor each other's self-identifications.

by zotlynn

Please login to rate.

Not fair to ask me.

Jun 15, 2008 7:41:50 PM cite

No. i'll never ask you to violate one of your principles, so don't ask any of the rest of us to violate ours. i adhere to the principle "Self-determination for All Peoples". This means each group making their own political and economic decisions. It also means each group and even individual self-defining their own identity. As i am not an anarcho-primitivist, i will not define them. i will not impose a definition upon them from outside. To be fair, you need to go ask somebody with that identity. It might be fair if you asked the original questioner what he or she was asking what we thought about. Let the anarcho-primitives define anarcho-primitivism, and let the rest of us support their self-determination.

by zotlynn

Please login to rate.

May 21, 2008 4:44:19 PM cite

'Anarcho-Primitivism' is a made up word that has not real meaning. As for some of your other questions you should do some research on this site before posting repetative questions.

by thedoc

Please login to rate.