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Profile of thedoc
Generation Gap
Hello Tillmann This is warren, when I tried to reregister under my original account I could not get in. So I used another e-mail, and user ID, and I'm in. Maybe they saw some of my questions or comments and decided to kick me out. At this point I cannot access any of the original comments to this or any other question, I can remember some and 2 that I had posted I had writen out first. I hope you have reconnected, as I would like to continue our dialoge on this and other subjects.
capacity
I agree, the capacity of the Human brain is so much greater that any computer, why would you want to peek into anything that small?
boom
If there had not been Military and Market forces, there would not have been a technology boom.
cost
The problem is not the Patent Laws, but the high cost of obtaining the Patent, that limits it to large corporations. The individual tinkerer does not have the recources.
road map
Why would you want to, if all cities were the same, you could find your way around no matter where you were.
connect
Nonsense! Thru the internet I have made connections with people, and then met them in person, that I would not have done otherwise. And this was not an adult dating service.
History
Hello Sabastiao, I believe that both of these comments are correct but may not realize the depth of the problem. Many populations have lived in harmony with nature (the Native Americans for one) and some still do but are in jeprody. The problem started with the ancient Greeks, or before, one contributing idea was that man could reason out all the answers to all questions about the world without actually examining the world. The idea of a philosopher in an ivory tower could reason out all the knowledge of the world contributed to the seperation of man from nature. We have a 'long row to hoe' to bring enough people back.
Reality
The problem here is trying to relate Scientific Objectivity to Philosophic Objectivity. They are not the same and do not relate. Scientific Objectivity is based on Observation, Measurement, and experimentation. In Philosophy Objectivity is related to what we believe the nature of existance and reality is. The Irony is that recient Scientific discoveries show that the Atom is mostly empty space, with mater composing a very small fraction of 1%. The impression of solid matter is a result of the Nucluar forces within and between Atoms. Statistically the material part of an Atom is insignificant, but the forces are real and the combination creates our reality.
Message
Tantegans. I believe your first sentance is the root of many problems in the world today. Elsewhere in this forium I asked 'Does your Religion have 'The' Message from God? or does it have 'A' Message from God? (search under 'warren'). I have been much influenced by Joseph Campbell 'Transformation of Myth Through Time'. I finally realizied that he was saying that all Myths are the same, retold for different times and people. Gods message is revealed in many ways, I stated elswhere that by looking at all the messages that have been, are now, and will be, we may someday receive the full message from God. As for the pronoun for God, I do not think many people would be comfortable refering to God as 'It'.
Comfort Zone
Hello Antares I believe you are correct, but in some cases we need to know others 'Comfort Zones'. In my life I have worked several different places and associated with different groups, and knowing the level of interest is important in knowing to what level the conversation can aspire. In some groups a discussion of the Metaphysical, or the 'Great Mystery of Being' would be lost and you are better off talking about football or furniture. When I meet someone with whom I can discuss the proper pronoun for God, (or other subjects) I will, In the meantime I respect the comfort zone of my company.
Regristation
Hello Again On the day of the round table I received an e-mail, stating that I would neet to reregister, (due to technical problems) to logon to the site. I was unable to register with my original name and e-mail, and used a second set. Perhaps others have had the same problem.
Mask
Hello Antares My exposure to Joseph Campbell is limited to 'Transformation of Myth Through Time', the book and a TV series I have on Tape. He states that Myth tells us a truth, but many people use the term 'Myth' to refer to something that is false, and that usage really annoys me. There is a phrase I used to use 'I refuse to discuss semantics, because most people just don't understand'. I like your use of the term 'Social Mask', I believe that many people adopt one and fail to recognise it as such. They loose touch with their 'Real Self' and believe the mask is who they are. As time passes it becomes more and more dificult to 'Rip off the Mask'. Your reference to a 'Fractal of the Divine Self' sounds like the Hindu belief that God is in all of us, or the Budahist goal of enlightenment, which (if I understand correctly) is a realization of our connection to the 'One Mind' or God? I know that labels are inadaquate for something that needs to be experienced and is undescribable.
Mask 2
Hello Antares I forgot to mention a Play that I read, 'Equus' by Peter Shaeffer. In the final speach the Psychiarist Dysart is tormented because he is required to put a 'Social Mask' on a young man so that the young man will then be Socially Acceptable, Just the opposite of 'Rip off the Mask' to reveal the true person underneath.
Observation
Hello RedSevenOne This sounds like an interesting exercise, I like to think of myself as observant but I believe that most people are not. An example from my own experience. In the USA, in Pennsylvania in 1965 the Pennsylvanid Department of Transportation started replacing highway signs with new designs. One was the Yield Sign, which had been Yellow and Black was changed to Red and White. I was driving on the Pa. Turnpike in 1965 and noticed the first one I encountered on a ramp. After several years most were of the new design. In the early 1980's I was in a conversation with a group and asked 'What color is a Yield Sign?' Most of the group Insisted that it was Yellow, even though by that time very few Yellow ones were left. Even more receintly I have asked the same question with the same results. Most people Will Not observe. many will cling to previous ideas when the Truthis directly in front of them. In this venue your suggestion may be taken to heart by many, but in the general public it will mostly fall on deaf ears. The problem is How can someone become attuned to nature if they refuse to see it.
Toll Road
Hello RedSevenOne I believe the Internet has the potential to create a democritization of knowledge, but there are trends which are disturbing. Receintly I have heard reports that some providers want to addopt a multi-tiered access to the internet. Low cost would be limited access, open access would be very expensive and affordable only by large corporations and gouvernments. Even now as I try to access some scientifis or technical data there is a fee to join and access. The 'Information Superhighway' is becoming a 'Toll Road'.
Equus
Hello Antares I was introduced to 'Equus' by a Radio brodcast called 'Reading Aloud' on a local PBS station about the same time as your production. I hope yours was succesfull. The reader was Richard Burton, and I was facinated with the story, but it was only receintly that I acquired a copy of the play to read. I feel that there is an advantage to reading over a live preformance, in that when reading I can pause and reread a line, but in a live show if I miss a line or phrase I cannot ask the actor to repete it. I know that this was fiction but I think that Peter Shaffer touched on some very real problems in Psychiatry, and society in general. Many people are expected to fit into a mold, and if they do not they are left out. (Personal experience with my youngest Daughter). I would welcome a private contact (thedoc2102@aol,com) but I firmly believe in the potential of this venue and would prefer our dialog to remain public, there may be someone who could benefit from our comments. I think it is unfortunate that this event was poorly announced and poorly attended. I may be cynical but I think that many of the 112 were there for a photo-op and publicity and not for anything of substance. I look forward to your reply, also I have many other comments, and am interested in your thoughts.
Birthday
Hello Antares Today 9-21 My Grandson, Trevor, is 1 year old! ! ! ! ! When my daughter Natalie and Doug both work, I watch Trevor and his brother Jeremiah (5 years) and when they are here I do not do anything else. Jeremiah allways seems to be hungry, and Trevor needs something, but I would not trade that time for anything. I would like to know if you were registered on this site before the round table, and if so did you have a problem re-registering after 9-9. I had a dialog with another contributor before the event but have had no contact since. I believe many people were not able to come back, and many now sign on one time, make some comments or answers and do not come back to look again. This may turn out to be a private dialog for you and me if no one else is looking. I have made several other comments and answers but have had no other replys. Be well, be optimistic, I will be here.
pancanal.com
Hello Antares Here is something to help you occupy some of your excess time???? :) On the Panama Canal web site they have live cameras set up at 3 places, 2 locks and 1 looking at the Centenial Bridge. At the Miraflores Lock, there is a post close to the camera and right now there is an Orange Brested Falcon perched on the post, I believe he comes there often, maybe every day, at aproximatly 8:30 to 9:00 AM. I do not know if you are interested in this sort of thing, but the Subject of this entry is the web site. I have been watching him as I write this. I also enjoy going there to watch the big ships go through the canal, in line with another one of my interests. Carpe Diem.
Question
Hello Antares Sorry I have been a bit slow getting back, I have been seeing a lot of Trevor and Jeremiah. Another bit of synchronicity, I have 3 children and 4 grandchildren. My youngest daughter has trevor, and My son has 3 daughters, Alyssa 12, and Hannah & Bailey 5 (twins). My granddaughters, through Marrage, have 7 Grandparents, so they get a lot of attention, Trevors father is not close with his parents so I am the Go-To grandparent, and I am happy to do it. I really had no intention of using this venue as a chat, but a little bit of personal info helps sometimes. My replys are best if thought out, much like my chess game, face to face I do not do well, but long tearm I do better. If I may return to the original question I believe that Miraj Khaled was really asking, which religion is of God and True, thereby making all other religions False. I had replyed in other answers/comments that perhaps all Religion/Myth is True, in that, in the original form there is Truth from God. (In another post I will give you some Biography) I was raised Lutheran and many years ago I started to Doubt. I started to read about Zen Budahism and over the course of several years and many books, I recognized the similarities in the teachings. I have since returned to the Church but have retained a scepticism as to much of what is taught about God. It seems that many want to define God with strict Limits, to them I say 'Who are you to say what God can or cannot do or be'. I prefer to think of God as having a sense of Humor, Compasson, empathy, and most of all 'Free Will', which I think many do not believe. Many religions think they have God 'Locked Up' But I believe God can go wherever, whenever, and talk to Whoever, If they would only listen. Next time you Pray, don't talk, Listen. I will apologize in advance if my replys become less frequent, I am prepairing for, what I call (without fear of contradiction) the largest model/toy train show in the world, repairing cars, watching Trevor, and whatever else comes up. If yopu are interested I will post some ideas on your river Project. Peace and live well.
name
Hello Antares Well you missed it, In the first comment of mine that you responded to I had given my name (search under warren). go back and look, I think it is funny in a way. By for now.
senior moment
As usual I forgot something, not so importent but time-consuming, I need to tend my eBay sales. The time I spend there does net a return. As always.
Loneliness
Hello Antares I was browsing the site and it occured to me that maybe many contributers are waiting for the answers of the (wise, all knowing, select) 112 of the round table to be posted before they dare say anything. It seems that you, I and a few others are the only ones with the 'Balls' to say what we think without waiting for the 'experts'. Oh well, thats all for now.
Issues
Hello Temmy I have a few issues with your answer. I believe that by knowing God's religion we will become more tolerant of other's beliefs. I have made several comments on this and need not repete them. Review if you like. Basicly all religions/myths are true, and once you accept that you can allow others their beliefs without conflict. As far as your idea (and many others) to divert funding from research to hunger and disease, Medical research is ongoing and more money will not always help, some research just takes time and luck. Many of the worlds hungry are in areas of civil war or corupt governments and money or supplies are diverted to these and not to those in need. The best way to feed those starving millions would be to go in with overwhelming military force and wipe out the local militia or the corupt government, and feed the needy. But how long would that last? "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach him to fish, you feed him for life." And how much outcry would there ba against the violence to end the violence. Teach people to feed and defend them selves. Finally by diverting money from science how many people are you putting out of work? The scientists, the support people, those who manufacture equipment, and retailers they buy from. Thousands and thousands would be affected by such cuts, just so you can send money and food that will be stolen by corupt military and officials, but you will feel good about yourself. Find a reliable way to send aid and I say go for it. But do not criticize scientists for doing research. Without advances in technology we in the developed countries would not even know about the starving millions or the local wars that are killing as many. Criticize corrupt governments and local war lords all you want, but do not criticize scientists and people who are working to do good for humanity. And you cannot say that you are not, by advocating taking away their funding, you are saying that the work is of no value. But perhaps that research will find a way to get help to those in need, where political rhetoric has failed.
Heaven
Hello Brian It's nice to find a thoughtfull answer to a question that I have spent some time commenting on and answering. Firstly I believe that rather than 'etymology' we should consider 'Semantics' in this discussion. You also seem to be mixxing things up a bit, 'God loving his Goddess' and then refering to 'he or her'? I especially like the reference to finding the Divinity in each other, reminds me of the Hindu greating. Finally With love in our hearts, God is in heaven, isn't that like saying God is in our hearts? I will be curious to here your response.
waste
Then you shouldn't waste this space in this site. You are only looking to get your mug and name on the space.
Symbolism
Hello Eliot, I think your symbolism in this answer is totally confused, you refer to roads and signposts, as on a highway, and then to a waterfall, as in a river, Which is it? If I where an english compositiion teacher, I would tell you to rewrite this answer, or get a failing grade.
Commonality
Hello Elisabet I believe that you have touched on something here. I have suggested elsewhere that God is the source of all religions, and each person should embrace one that is comfortable to them, but accept that others may seek a different path. Such tolerence would do much to reduce voilence in the world.
Religion
Hello Temmy I was begining to wonder if anyone else was coming back to the dialoge. Going back to my first point of 'Knowing God's Religion' elseware I stated that 'God is religion, God is all religions'. I also advocated embracing one religion, not pursuing all the variety to pick one that is correct, all are correct. Then accepting that all religions originate from God, tollerance will follow. I have arrived at this point via a twisted path, I was raised Lutheran, many years ago I began to doubt. After reading a lot about Budahism I recognized the similaritiesand came back to the church. More receintly I worked in a machine shop, a co-worker is Muslim, after many conversations, questions, and answers, I realized that our Religions are almost identical, but for one point. Finally watching a vidio of Joseph Campbell opened my eyes to the possibility that all Religion/Myth had the same origin 'God'. I believe that we are in 99% agreement on helping those in need, we may differ on the means. Some people in areas of war and climate change must move. People in ancestrial lands must submit to reason and survival. One of the major problems in the world is overpopulation. I once gave a rather harsh answer to a young person who advocated war and famine to reduce the population, I believe education and birth control are the answer. As far as scientific research, it does not always net the result anticipated. Many important discoveries and advances have come from difirent areas and are unexpected. The internal combustion engine (a doubble edged sword) came from several discoveries that had nothing to do with that end. As I said before, any research may have results that we have no way of anticipating, but which may answer many important problems. My final thought (for now) I believe that God has many qualities, one of which is empathy. When you are happy, God is happy. When you eat a good meal, God enjoys with you. When someone suffers, God suffers. Matthew 25-40 I admire what you are doing for those in need, but as well as them seeing the hand of God coming to them, you are helping to aleviate the suffering of God, and that is an expression of Gods Religion.
surprised
Hello Losttortoise I agree that Thenmozhi Soundararajan gave a very good answer to this question. I was surprised at the ferocity of your comment, I thought I was the only one who could be that nasty. For the most part I agree with your comment but there is one small point. After reviewing many of the answers given by the table of 112, I would question that they can be described as so many 'brilliant minds'. Some of their answers are a total waste of space. As for how this question got here, in the format before Sept. 9 anyone could submit a question, many were very poorly thought out, but those same people were voting on the questions to be considered. As in computers G.I.G.O.
Confused
This answer is a bit contradictory, Art students are insecure and unsure, and yet are superior to others? Anyone who pursues art must be comfortable with their talent. But the only ones they are superiior to are the critics, who produce nothing but negative comments about something they do not understand. Their attitude comes from the art teachers who encourage that kind of attitude to keep others from commenting on the work.
3 in 1 if you don't mind.
Hello If I may join in, I will comment in this thread instead of 3 seperate. Your primary question is about the environment, global warming and pollution. The idea that people are a seperate creation from nature is based on some religious teachings, and is very dangerous. Those who believe that they are seperate, will believe that they can survive without nature or the environment. They will see the world as theirs to use as they see fit. We need to understand that we are part of nature, evolution is how it happened. God may have started it but Evolution is how it happened. Most people are not very observant, I know everyone thinks they are Sherlock Holmes, but the truth is they are not. They can walk right past something, look right at it, and not see it. Especially if something has changed they will not see the change. If people do not see the change in the environment how can they become aware of the problem. Part of the problem is that there is too much speculation, and too many wild claims. In reality no one knows how the environment will change or where. The prediction is that sae levels will rise and flood many cities like New York. Is that really a loss? Seriously, the sea level will not rise so fast that New York and others will, by rebuilding and replacing old structures, become a modern version of Venice. Cities will not need to move or shut down, just change and adapt. More people will live on the water, and if we don't pollute it too badly the sea will become the new farmland. The environmental cause, especially global warming, has an unfortunate spokes person. Al Gore has lost credibility due to his exagerated claims and warnings. In a speach he said we are 'breaking Thousand Year temperature records'. Thermometers were not in existance 'till the early 1700's so there are no earlier records to break. His lack of credibility is hurting the cause. Many are becoming more environmentally friendly, some due to economics, high fuel prices lead to more fuel eficient cars and other energy uses. Some are doing what they can because it is right. There are many ways to help the environment, many paths not well worn, but there. As awareness grows more will join in. One major part of the solution must population control, if the population keeps growing nothing will stop the crash. The solution must come from people world wide. One person standing on a street corner will not do it. One discredited politician making missinformed movies will not do it. the 3 of us sitting at our computers posting on this site will not do it. When Billions of people world wide decide, we must care for the environment and not destroy it, conserve our resources and not waste them, then Governments and corporatiions will listen and things will change. Finally are you sure you want to lift sexual taboos, Wouldn't all those hot sweaty bodies contribute to global warming. . . . . ? - Sorry about that. I think I understand your point. without taboos (sexual repression) peope would be more relaxed, and would respect others, and that respect would transfer to society and the environment. This may also tie in with your last question about loving or hating your country. I believe both situations would be bad, to love your own and hate others, or to hate your own and love others. I would hope for a more moderate view of loving your own country and appreciating that others love their country, and celebrating that. Be happy for each others Joy. Making others feel bad should not make you feel better!
Climate change
Thankyou for the reply, I was begining to wonder if anyone posted and came back. You are correct that there are ways to measure climate for many years in the past (Tree rings go back several thousand years) but these are climate, which is the average temp. not the extreme high and low which are the subject of records. Al Gore is not alone, there have been many prominent people who have made extreme claims, and the general public is put off by these. A more moderate approach would get a better response. To restate my main point, no one knows what the effect of global warming will be, world wide tropical rainforest, or world wide desertification. A clue may be in the past, when the earth was not in an ice age (defined as permanent ice at the poles, the current climate.) the climate was pole to pole tropical rain forest. May not be such a bad thing, no need to burn fossil fuel to heat your home.
Gradual or catastrophic
It is true that a Nuclear War, Asteroid Strike, or a massive Volcanic Eruption could cause a catastrophic loss of species and environmental biodiversity, but aside from a catastrophe we are experiencing rapid extinctions due to human activity, and I believe this it the point of the question. Extinction and evolutionary replacement occur naturally, but currently extinction has been much accelerated. What is not known is 'How rapidly can evolution replace lifeforms in vacant niches?' or is it possable that the environment has changed so much that the extinct species no longer tenable, and new niches have been created. If environmental biodiversity continues to be reduced, at some point localized environments may collapse, and this could trigger failure in other areas that are linked biologicaly. Human activity is possible that is environmentally friendly, but massive slash and burn techniques, and others, are very distructive, and we do not know how much damage the environment can sustain without a biological collapse.
Equality
This question is problematic in the assumption that all men (in the west) are party to the subjugation of women in society. This is Feminast propagenda & stereotyping that is false. A few men in positions of athority are not willing to relinquish that power. The Feminists by lumping all men together, stereotyping them, and attacking them, put men on the defensive and eliminate the chanse of cooporation and help. Historically the struggle for equality has not resulted in those in power willingly giving up that control. Only when a majority have demanded change has it occured. Feminasts are a minority of women, male chauvinists are a minority of men. When the majority of men and women call for change, it will happen.
life on Earth
Hello Chris, Thankyou for the thoughtful comment. As far as environmentally friendly activity, I did not say it was practical, only Possible. There are many cultures, that we would consider primitave, that live without doing any harm to the environment, but most modern people do not want to return to that lifestyle. The most important factor in modern technological activity is the volume of activity. At this point the sheer number of people living at a disatance from their work makes this a problem. To this end the only solution would be a reduction in the total population, and a return to people living in closer comunities where distance was not a factor. I do not advocate the violent remedies that some would, but I recomend a reduction in the birth rate, leading to a gradual lowering of the population. However in the meantime there are a few things that can be done, more fuel effecient cars would reduce emissions, also expanding emission standards to all who use fossel fuels. Myself, I burn wood for heat and hot water, eliminating the need to use oil, a fossel fuel and polluter. Another unlikely example, my daughter lives and works in Mahatten, where many people walk to work. In the midst of the most unaturatel place on earth people are practicing a most environtmentally friendly act of not using transportation that uses fossel fuel. As far as diet, apart from a reduction in the total population, each individual can contribute by growing something on a large or small scale to return to a more natural food source. A reduction in population would eliminate the need for the intensive farming and food production methods that are currently needed to supply the demand. The 'unacceptable sacrifice' would be the lack of mobility, but peoples ego and independence have all but eliminated the widespread use of public transportation, except in the very densly populated areas. A return to the use of mass transit, public transportation would help. There are very few catastrophies or environmental colapses that could eliminate all life on earth. There are only 2 posibilates that I can think of, both very long tearm. One the collapse of the Earth's magnetic field which would allow the solar wind to strip the earth of the atmosphere and water. The second is the expansion of the sun (which will happen in a few billion years) that will incinerate the earth. In the short tearm I do not know of anything that could end all life on earth, some life would survive and continue. That may not be good news for Humans, but life on earth will continue.
Additional comments
Chris I have made other comments on the environment, population, and resources. Click on my user I. D. to see my other postings.
death or life ?
Hello X, While I can appreciate your zeal for your efforts in objecting to the 'Death Penalty' your information is incorrect and such errors could damage your creditability and hurt your cause. The facts are that there is no signifagent difference to prosecute a capitol case to the death penalty or life inprisonment. Second the cost of incarceration on death row, or life inpriosnment is comparable. The cost of execution is not a major expense compared to the cost of a year on death row. This information is from profesionals working in the criminal justice system, not wild speculation in a bar over a few beers, or by some fanatic making wild claims to promote a cause. For example 2 criminals convicted of capitol crimes, one sentenced to death the other to life, after 5 - 10 years the first is executed and no longer a cost to society. The other spends the next 30 - 40 years in prison far exceding the expense of the former. Your claims were false and incorrect. If a criminal is to repent, eminent death is a strong motivator, and better sooner that later. The criminal has chosen their end, do not disapoint them by delaying that end.
Beastly !
Hello Another term for Beastliness is greed and the lust for power over others, which leads many to some very inhumane acts. Often the lust for power has prompted people to pervert and corrupt the original teachings of Religion (universally Tollerance, Peace, and Love for others) to a message of hate and violence. This leads to a vicious cycle that is all but impossable to stop. It is true that the Media tends to focus on sensationalism, but ocassionally a local story of kindness or heroism is aired. There may be hope for some of us?
Incredible !
This is an incredible comment, to suggest that families in the poorer countries should wear condoms when having sex. Poor families are often struggling to find enough food to keep from starving, to find shelter and clothing. To suggest that they should just walk to the corner pharmacy and purchase a pack of condoms, WHAT DO THEY PAY WITH, AND WHERE DO THEY FIND A LOCAL DRUG STORE ! Are you suggesting that the orginazations who are struggling to provide food should give them condoms instead, They could then starve to death, but childless ! Your comment is totally insensitive and ludicrous. Then to suggest that the parents do not care about their children, is inhuman in the extreme. I believe your comment should be removed from this venue, but I will let it stand so others can see how ignorant some people can be.
Puzzled ?
This seems to be a bit of a puzzle, since you believe that human beings are such Beasts, and state that "Too Much People for this Planet.", and "What the Hell if Some of Them Starve on the Way." One wonders why you would bother doing Humanitarian work for people, if their dying would decrease the surplus population. Or is it just so you can feel good about yourself ?
Comments.
Perhaps my comments in "incredable" were a bit harsh, but your comments in "Before Child Labor" were disturbing. Were they intended to provoke ?
pathetic !
It is a bit pathetic when you need to answer your own question because there is no interest from others. You had one good question, don't expect the others to be as well received.
Religion vs. Organized Religion
Hello Voltaire, For myself, I would differentiate 'Religion' as the original core teaching and 'Organized Religion' as the structured church, Dogma, and Rhetoric, that has been added to the original teaching. 'Idol Worship' is a pitfall that many have fallen into, but most understand that the images are symbols of something else and not the object of worship. There are a few of us who Question the rigid Dogma, though many leave the church, a few stay and question from within. In an older posting I asked 'Does your Religion have 'The message from God or A message from God?' If you believe that you have 'The Message' then you are a victum of 'I'm right and you're wrong'. Those who have 'A message' can be tollerant of other different beliefs. Myself, studying Budahism lead me to an understanding of the similarities of religious beliefs and a return to the Christian Church. The difference is a blind acceptance of dogma, and a critical examination of the message, seperated from the details. Those who are obsessed with the details and facts will not see the message. Joseph Campbell points out that all Myths are true 'In Message' but 'Fiction in detail', a very important distinction. We need more people who will look for the truth and not get hung up on the details. All Religions are True, Though all have acquired some fiction to enhance the message. The trick is to strip away the fiction and see the message. Science is discovering more and more details of the past, and Religions that oppose these discoveries are doomed to failure, as more people understand the truth. Religion deal with spiritual truth, and much of what is being taught is 'Factual Fiction' a dangerious situation. Please look at some of my other postings for more.
A Definitive Update.
Thankyou for reinforcing my point that 'Organized Religion' is not Evil but the undividuals involved in it can be. I will not expound on the excessive use of alcohol, but the excessive use of religion (to the piont of fanaticism) can be just as distructive to the individual. As you point out the individual going to church and the 'Many Unscrupulous and corrupt church politicans and Businessmen' are the expression of evil. Both of these practices are contrary to any teaching of a religion (my definition) with which I am familiar, so I stand by my point that it is the individual and not Organized Religion that is evil. I must disagree with the idea that the church accepts the 'Statis Quo' where poverty and suffering are present. Those that I am familiar with are aware of these problems and are making some effort to help. Finally I sympathize with the lack of productive activity available in many places, and I am reminded of one rather Idiotic recomendation on how to help. It was to give each villager a TV. This was back in the 60's. First where do you plug it to make it work? Second what is there to watch? Static ! ! I would also question how productive watching TV could be? Where you are how many broadcast channels could you pick up, and how many in the more remote villages. This was representative of some of the suggestions made over the years. I believe that in all areas Good, Evil, indiference, must be attributed to the individual and not on some organization.
Penaltys
Hello Cite Interesting web page, however I was only able to look briefly, but some points were not clear. I would agree that a case seeking the death penalty would cost more to prosicute than one seeking a lesser penalty, but that is not a fair comparison. Cases seeking the death penalty would all be similar in cost, but the outcome may not be the same, and where life is imposed the cost would be higher in the long run. It seems that the reports are suggesting that the death penalty should not be sought in a capitol case as it is too expensive. I believe that the decision on penalty should be based on the particulars of the individual case and not on economics. If you have read these reports in depth, perhaps you would elaborate on that point.
responsibility
Hello, I am aware of the real world as stated in previous entries, my comments were directed at those individuals who are intentionally crude and obnoxious, and should know better. Their immaturity is not a lack of years or knowledge but a lack of respect for other's Human Dignity. I have no problem with simple people who are challenged in one way or another, I encorage them to do the best they can. Many do contribute to society and to them I say Bravo! My problem is with those who are intentionally cruel and intollerent, and have the capacity to know better. 250 characters was not nearly enough to express my original comment. Free speach needs to be tempered with responsibility, and there are many who abuse that freedom by posting messages that have no place in a reasoned dialogue. there are other sites where crude and obscene entries can be made. All who have something to say should be heard but Let this be a forum for civil and polite dialogue.
yes/no
The origins of Social Dualism began with life itself, most living creatures belong to a group. And with human Beings the individual lives in this group and not the other one. So you have duality. There is a problem with Waleen's question in that it seems to equate dualism with extremism, this is not the case. Most people fall somewhere between the extremes, probabily in a similar distribution as the 'Bell Curve'. The more intelegent and educated you are the more you realize that most issues are somewhere between the extremes. Often the more you learn about something, you realize how much you don't know and start to reserve your judgement. Only the illinformed or those incapable of absorbing more than just a little information will have an extreme opinion. However there are some questions that can be answered yes or no. I am sitting in this chair and not that one. I am here and not where you are. These are simplistic issues. the moral and social questions are much more complex which leads to a gradiation of answers. Dualism is not extremism, it means I hold this view and not another, of which there are many.
ditto
And here we have another lie about a 'Lie'? perpetrated by a bunch of wacko's fuelled by beer posted on the internet for those who are easily influenced to spread even further. This is the most idiotic conspiracy theory I've heard yet. The data is obviously fantasy baised on nothing substantial (other than alcoholic beverage). And Craiger need not respond, that would not be a dialogue I would pursue.
truth/lie?
There is an old saying 'Figures don't lie but lyers can sure figure'. It seems that there are always scams going arround, especially after some disaster. Offers to help rebuild. The perpetuator's should be locked up, but the victums bear the responsability to verify the truth.
Lies for loosers
This lie has grown out of the liberal educators proposal that no child should experience failure because it may damage their delicate little psyche. Rubbish ! It gave them a false sense of security and the expectation that everything will be handed to them. Now we have a society of people who expect to sit on their couch and collect their welfare check to pay for cable and the Cadilac, because they don't have the dignity to work for what they get. This is why we have childrens games where the outcome must be a tie, so there are no loosers. This is the most Damnedable lie of all, to teach them that they can achieve without trying hard. The truth is the higher your goals, the harder you must work for it, including education, talent, and cultivating the right friends. It's all part of the game and crying foul because someone else gets help is for loosers. And even if you are 'set up' Tough ! you should watch your back.
Wasted space
Do I need any more proof of the degenerate rubbish that has invaded this site?
responsability
I think it is extremely rude and incosiderate of you to post your question 11 times in an attempt to block the questions of other users. Other questions deserve the opurtinity to be considered, as much as your's, weather you like them or not.
Krieg
Wenn sie etwas, uber Krieg im Iran zu sagen haben, so. Bilden Sie Ihren Standplatz, aber Sie brauchen nicht uber ihn grob zu Sein.
accuracy
"and even in Genesis eating meat is consicered as a curse" This is a really twisted interpretation of the Bible. No version that I have seen has ever said that. If you are going to quote, please get it correct.
freedom
I must disagree with this, all life is interdependent and we also depend on non living objects. We need the sun for energy, the planet for a place to live and air to breath. You need other living things for something to eat. Completely free ands independent is floating unprotected in space, very dead. But then you say you like to co-operate & have fun with animals? I don't think I want to hear about that.
truth
Hello Balbina, I concede that my comments were not as focused as you appear to be. It seems to me that if someone were to produce a product, (animals for meat) they would not treat the output badly. If a company produced furniture, they would not roughly throw the items into a truck for delivery, they would carefully stack them to avoid damage. The same with animals, a healthy animal that is not under stress would be a better product. Bruises, broken bones and illness would lower the market value. It would be more profitable to raise animals in a humane manner. I do not know the source of your data but I grew up around farms, and the animals were always treated as well as possible, farmers understand the value of their livestock. If you have not done so I would recomend that you visit the places where animals are raised and see for yourself what the conditions are. If you are relying on the internet, or 'Animal Rights Activists' I would urge caution. Sometimes people with a cause will take the worst example possible and represent it as the norm. If you are familiar with facilities that treat animals badly, I would like to hear about them. Here in the US much is being done to improve conditions, one factor is economic, 'The better the animals are treated the better the product'. Again be cautious of groups with a cause, there have been many distortions and outright falsehoods in the name of a cause. Activists often view their cause as war, and 'Truth' is the first casuality of war.
intoxicated?
Hello Fjagramaki, It appears that the translation is up to you. Baised on Sioux2's other contributations to this forium, I am not willing to waste my time translating. If it is of value as you say, I look forward to reading it. Perhaps he just wants a private conversation with his other beer swilling buddies.
Voids.
Here I will give my explaination of the large scale structure of the Universe. There are Cosmological theories that will be questioned. First "The expansion of the Universe is due to the stretching of space, which carries the galaxies apart". Second "The Big Bang was a singular event". The large scale structure of the Universe is best explained by examining that structure. It has been compared to a mass of soap bubbles with the galaxies forming the walls surrounding large Voids (underdense areas). These voids are expanding at a uniform rate thereby expanding the Universe. The explaination given is that space is stretching and carrying the galaxies apart. I do not agree. Space does not stretch. It is perfectly fluid but does not stretch or compress. If space were stretching all space would expand. Not only between galaxies but also within them, within solar systems, within matter itself. Matter, molecules and atoms, are mostly empty space. If space were expanding the atoms in our bodies would expand, the planet and the instruments we use to measure the expansion, would expand. The expansion would be undetectable. The Voids, and the Universe, are expanding because over time there is more space and matter in them. This new space is spreading and expanding the Universe. The Big Band was not a singular event, but the begining of a contuing process of creation. Within each Void, new space and matter is coming into existance. I believe this is the only theory that can explain the shape of the Universe today.
tortured?
I agree that many animals are mass-produced but I question the idea of Torture. If you are producing a product it does not make sense to miss-treat it, as that would lower the value at market. Even if economics is the only consideration well cared for animals are more profitable. See my other posts on this question.
Medicine?
Also most if not all medications are toxic to the body and only do good in a controled and limited application. Medicine may heal one problem but will eventually cause other problems if not limited in use.
All inclusive?
This is outrageous, why are you not including plants in your 100% free medical care program? Also does your vision include insects, and if not why not? Are you going to set up free clinics at the thermal vents on the ocean floor? If your program is not all inclusive I cannot support it. This is one of the most ridicously idiotic statements I've seen yet.
Reasons to use?
I agree that there are many reasons to take drugs but I do not want to speculate how many are good or bad. If you include medications and medicinal use of other drugs, the scale would tip to the good. I do not believe that drugs will improve or expand anything, they may change your perspective or improve one aspect, but there will always be an overall loss or detrimental effect. One point of correction, even though Sherlock Holmes was fictional, in his stories he never took drugs to help solve a mystrey, drugs were only used when there was no problem to solve. The drugs were used to aleviate boredom, give him a crime and the needle stayed in the drawer, it was a needle not a pipe for cocane. Throughout the stories Dr. Watson repetedly admonished Holmes that his drug use would destroy his mental abilities. Also Dr. Joceph Bell, who Connan Doyle used as a pattern for Holmes, did not use drugs.
Courtesy.
First of all, I'm glad to see that you came back to check on your post. I've seen too many times that someone would post several items and never respond again. As far as my comment about being Rude I'll let that stand for now. Consider this, the scroll at the top of the page has a finite capacity and entering the same question repeatedly uses up space that should be left for other questions. On the dialogue page there are 10 'Most Recent Questions'. 11 posts would totaly use up that space. These are ways that many users first see new questions. Finally you now need to review 11 questions to see the responses, 2 have, and 9 do not. Wouldn't it be better to have all responses in the same place. The only restriction to repeatedly posting a question is common courtesy to other users. I agree that your question has merit, but no more that some others, and there are some that I would prefer to see eliminated. If you have another good question post it but please do not use up the limited recources of this site. I do feel strongly on the subject of your question, Racism & Bigotry, but perhaps a start would be respect and courtest for other people.
Alone or Together?
This thread seems to be arguing at Cross Purposes. One says you must do 'it' alone, the other, we need a group to do 'it'. The difficulty appears to be what is 'it'? You can certinally go to a court and shoot a few hoops by yourself, but to play a game of basketball you need 9 other players. Learning is an individual experience, but some things are best learned in a group. If everyone would site specific examples we could more easily reach an agreement.
Rocks
The issue here is to spend your time wisely. Decide what is important and do it. There is always more to do than can be done in one day. 'Put the big rocks in first'. If you fill your day with small unimportant things you will not have time for what matters most.
Control or lack of ?
I think we agree that 'control is the key' but for many, who are not as strong, lack of control is the problem. An interesting note Morphine used in medicine to relieve pain, is very addictive, but when the source of the pain was gone the patient could stop and was not addicted. So perhaps when the substance is used for a specific purpose, dependence will not be the result?
dialogue
Hello Flipzoid, First let me say that I do not jump into a conversation without first reviewing all the answers/comments that have gone before. This seems to be the most lively thread. Yes all learning involves external influence but the learning is still an internal process. The original question has so many potential answers that saying which is the greatist may be futile. But to get things done, evocing God is not a cop-out. Christianity states that faith without works is worthless, Budahism says even with enlightenment you live in the world and participate in the drama of life. So even evoking God does not excuse you from being a part of society. Also bringing God into the dialogue should not keep some who do not believe from expressing their ideas. It may be a lively dialogue after all.
What have we learned ?
This thread seems to have come full circle. The first 2 answers 'I can do it alone' is a lie, and 'You must do it alone', appear to have been disproved. Everything we do or know is the result of many influences by others, and yet our experiences are ours alone. Your thoughts and ideas are yours alone, and even when you try to tell someone you can't be sure that the words have the same exact meaning to others. In this site trying to express our ideas briefly leads to restatements and clarifications. Sometimes I think it would be good if others could hear my thoughts directly, but then I realize that if others could read my mind, I'd be in a lot of trouble by now. We are all happening, being, this is how we learn and grow, but we must be careful what we do. Sometimes what appears good, is bad for others, and what we say sounds good, but will confuse, or lead others to the wrong idea. The other point is teaching Love, I'm not sure if we can teach it or just show it. I do know that hateing is taught, taught by family, relatives and friends. Not always by telling someone 'These people, you should Hate', but by the way they are refered to. Since I am of German backround I will use these examples. Years ago 'Kraut' was a derogatory name for Germans. During the American revolutionary war 'Dutch Courage' was a reference to the Hessian soldiers being intoxicated for battle, (a common practice of all military of the time) These terms may seem harmless or funny, but the cumulative effect over years is to teach young people to Hate certain other people. Telling ethnic jokes or using derogatory names for other nationalities is a subtle but effective way to teach young people who to hate. Perhaps teaching Love follows a similar path. BTW Have you looked at the latest answer to the original question, by 'DaftAida' Wow !
Free !
Or he could check the bug zapper for some toasted crispy treats. Or the front of his car for freah grilled game.
I'll be back.
Hello Flipzoid, How did you find that question, it was posted weeks before the round table and I do not remember it being in the 100. I will give that reply some thought. For e-mail check my comment 'Equus' Sept 20 '06. If you are interested in what I have said on this and other subjects, much has already been posted in questions, comments, and answers. One of the problems with this venue is that many log on and post without reviewing what has been said before. A lot of duplication and a wasted space. If you review my previous entries please excuse the nasty ones, sometimes when one gets to me, I will reply in kind.
Yes Grasshopper
Hello Flipzoid, Yes I was teacher many years ago. I'll start with a couple of things to help you get around. On the upper right of the page are two links, 'My Account' and 'Log Out' (I have never loged out) click on the first and you will go to a page with your most recient posts newest on top. click on 'questions, answers, or comments' and you will go to a page with those entries, oldest first. If you want to look at what someone has posted click on their username (anywere you find it) and you will go to a page for that person with similar options. Of course on the dialogue page you can click on almost anything to go to that entry, even the scroll at the top. Good luck.
macho ?
I'm not sure about this, If you want to confront someone and prove your manhood by beating them to a pulp, then bare hands is the way to go. But if you are exterminating some worthless vermin, just shoot them and don't dirty your hands.
When you have some free time ?
Here's something else, scroll down the right side of the page to 'table of free voices', click on the image and you will go to a page where you can (by clicking on the left side of the image) browse the 100 questions presented to the round table and by clicking on one bring up the 112 replies by those at the event. It takes some time, some of the question got no farther than that, but some are still being debated. I believe many of these are vidios that require a certian program to run, Good luck.
Quach ?
According to 'Babel Fish' Quatsch means 'Rubbish'. Was 'Quach' a missspelling or a typo. Or is it not German ?
Deity ?
Hello Flipzoid, Check out 'Joseph Campbell' on Mythology, He had some interesting things to say about different Religions/Myths and how a society could determine weather it's Deity was male or female. The primary source of food seemed to be the key Crops from 'Mother Earth' or 'Man', the hunter.
Good Spelling !
Excellent ! You found the misspelled word in my previous post. However your entry was poorly composed, a bit repetitive. I supose translating from German to English is difficult. Perhaps you could try again, and see if you can find the spelling error in this one. If you do well I will include a grammaticel error for you to find.
Meaning ?
Hi Flipzoid, I'm not sure that I have a good answer for this. Dialogue would seem to be the way to come to an understanding if not an agreement. Many log on, leave a few entries and do not respond again. You and 'Zombie Passage' seem to have some 'give and take' but I do not always understand what he is saying, a bit to esotaric for me. There seem to be very few who will enter into a dialogue, and the site is the poorer for it. Still keep it up, what we do not know is how many are browising and benifiting, without leaving an entry.
Perception ?
Hello Zombie Passage, I believe I understand your post 'About' on Aug 31, and I agree that actions are based on judgements which are based on objective perception, and if we all have the same objective perception, we should all come to the same conclusion and be in agreement. The problem is that everyones perception is not objective, everyone has a different background with a different bias or prejudice. Different people can look at the same thing and see it differently. Sometimes they will look at an object and not see it at all. See my post 'Observation' on Sept 19 '06, This may be called subjective perception and it is unfortunate that it seems to be the norm. I found your reference to 'becoming fully fledged humans' interesting, and I am curious, what qualities are needed to achive that state. Are some more advanced than others ? Ideas and views need not be esoteric but some subjects have developed a very specific termanology, and you have expressed yourself on some subjects with which I am not familiar, and those comments are esoteric to me. sometimes it is the phrasing or composition. I do not say this as a criticism, since the shortcoming is my own and the lack is the familarity with some subjects.
Prayer
Some time ago I wrote a short piece about prayer. In it I asked 'when you pray are you talking the whole time, asking God for this or that, asking him to Bless or Heal someone. Have you ever prayed by quietly listening?' And so it is with perceving God. When he comes is there humble acceptance, or egoistic rejection? It seams that there is a great deal of ego in world religions today, many claiming the exclusive word of God. Is God not free to reach who-ever, wher-ever, & when-ever he wants ? Could we (the human race) shed our egoism and learn to be tolerant of other's views and ideas ?
Freedom with responsability.
I believe that Morality can be considered in two ways. Secular Moralism is based on the principle of 'Do no harm' and such laws and rules would be benefical to all. The problem developes when some in athority decide that the individual must be protected from themselves, such laws and rules will infringe on freedom. Spiritual Morality is based on a belief in a Diety, and the universal principal is Love of God and Others. This is generally benefical. The addoption of both of these principles would bring about the maximum freedom for all, and none would be enslaved for the benefit of others.
Whatever ?
Hello Flipzoid, Zombie, (I hope I'm not in the Whatever catigory ! ) To a point I agree with Flipzoid that we can believe in God but must still act. 'Faith without works is worthless.' However I cannot believe that Zombie is acquiescent as you and he ? seem to imply. Even with the statement that we must wait for God to do, He is contributing to this site, which is an action for the benefit of others. There is a story about two young girls walking to meet a schoolbus. When they arrived the bus had already gone. One girl fell to her knees Praying to be taken to the school. The other was praying too, but while running as fast as she could.
+ & -
Just as importantly is there a balance. Good & Bad, Light & Dark, Love/Hate & indifference. Isn't it 'Good' when all things are in balance ?
Ego vs Action.
There is nothing wrong with being Consciously acquiescent, at times the best thing to do, is to do nothing, but other times some action is called for. When aid is given, or kindness shown to another person, without thought of return, is that action devoid of ego at that moment ? Can any action be without ego, or is everything we do based on self-interest at some level. Once the ego is destroyed, is total passivity the answer, leading to the distruction of the body, and therefore an act (by inaction) of supreme egotism. Even if you are without ego you participate in life, in the drama of existance. To seek solitude and disengage from society is an act of extreme self-interest. Only by freely giving to, and doing for others, can you be without ego.
Wanting to know ?
Perhaps this young person is trying to gain knowledge anticipating the time when he will be in a romantic situation, also maybe he will tell us what his favorite is, other than sitting at his computer.
Yin Yang
In the case of good and bad, equal portions are not the proper balance. It only takes a little bad to make you appreciate the good, and sometimes a lot of good to overcome the bad. Where I worked once there was a saying, 'One Oh-Shit whiped out all your Atta-boys'.
Yes
The Roman Catholic Church only Cannonized preexisting books and excluded others, they created nothing new. The Church is relying on it's Theocratic athority to gain power.
Equus
Have you ever read 'Equus' by Peter Shaffer, It is a play based on what you have just said here.
Happy Dreams.
Your own Happiness is an internal decision, your's to decide if you can be happy where you are with what you have. Acheaving your dreams depends on what your dreams are. Will you be satisfied aiming low and reaching them sometime, or aiming high and be satisfied working hard toward the goal. If you aim low and reach them will it be enough, if you aim high will the effort be enough ?
Perfect Symmetry.
Chaos is a fundamental part of order. Quantum Mechanics deals with the smallest components of the atom and predicts only probabilities, randomness,chaos, not certainty. The flow of light and fluids at particular levels of voluum and velocity becomes chaotic. Some of the most violent and chaotic events in the universe are the supernove, which are essential to our existance, all the heavy elements were created in those cataclysms. A black hole has tidal forces so strong that atoms and subatomic particles are ripped apart, very chaotic. Human activity is chaotic because individuals can choose freely the action to take. The movement of large numbers can be predicted but the movement of the individual is unpredictable, random, chaos. Eliminate chaos and the universe would cease to exist. It would revert to a pre-'Big Bang' condition. Perfect symmetry, perfect nonduality, no space, no matter, no time, Sterile.
Semantics ?
Tolerance is to recognise and respect other's beliefs and practices without sharing them, not ignoring a problem. Acceptance is to receive favorably, or to believe in, not accepting the unacceptable. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you were trying to say, being more careful of your semantics.
History.
Before the light bulb there were candles and oil lamps that allowed people to work thru the night, and the industrial revolution started long before the light bulb. Would you like to try again ?
Usefull ?
Hello Flipzoid, a young person that I met once, was attending Seminary, and had this to say about some of her classmates, 'They are so Heavenly minded that they are no Earthly good'. I believe that there are a few of those contributing to this site.
Browsing
Hello Windmill on Fire, welcome to the site and thankyou for the encouragement. I do have one recomendation for you, if you have not already done so. When you find a question, answer or comment that interests you, go back and read as many previous posts as time permits. You can click on almost anything on a page to go to another page. One unfortunate thing you will discover is that much is dross, including the answers by the 112 of the round table on Sept 9 '06. A lot to look through to find a few gems.
Noble
Your definition of Humanity is interesting and Noble, but the unfortuinate truth is that there are some whose Greed or Fanaticism has overcome any attempt to civilize them, and the rest of us must addopt a defensive attitude to protect ourselves.
Contrast
I must disagree with your symbolism of the Yin Yang. Dark and light define knowledge, by bringing light into the darkness all meaning is lost. My computer screen is light, and the letters and symbols are dark, if all were light, I could read nothing. With the eye having something to see there must be contrast or there is no image, and it is the same in life or spirituality, without contrast we have nothing.
Earlier Posts.
I believe that we are more in agreement than not. If you would review my earlier posts on Global warming and Population, I have tried to express the idea that population must be reduced by lowering the birth rate, and people must become more energy efficient in their lifestyle. Unfortunatly many have chosen convenience and instant gratification, and developing countries are trying to copy our affluence. I must say I am at a loss as to how to promote this message as many do not seem to be listening.
I'm sorry I'm so pessimistic.
I believe that there is a problem with the first part of your answer, in that students come to school with the attitude of their parents, and this is the primary influence on their preformance. See my answer 'Is quality education possible ?' on Dec. 6 '06. One of the questions I heard repeatedly was 'how does this relate a job or my life after I get out of school?' I was teaching Industrial Arts which related directly to many trades. As for the second part, students are sometimes smarter than given credit for, and will see through this ploy, rendering it ineffective. I was teaching in the public schools when a law was passed, restricting the use of corporal punishment (paddling). The Principal come in to the teachers lounge and said to not tell the students about the law, that if they didn't know they wouldn't complain, and we could get away with it for awhile longer. I remarked later to another teacher that the students probably knew about the law before we did. To me this demonstrated the Principal's lack of respect for the intelligence of the students, and that he was totaly stuck in the past and lacked understanding.
'A' Message or 'The' Message ?
I posted a question on Aug 21 '06 that may help this dialogue. You will need to search for a question by 'Warren'. It is subtle but if properly understood and answered by the majority, it could lead to a more peacful world.
The Acorn does not fall far from the Tree.
I believe that here comments similar to those in my Answer 'Is Quality Education Possible' on Dec. 6 '06 would be applicable. Children whose parents are easily manipulated by the media will in turn also be easily manipulated. Children whose parents are more critical will learn to question the claims of the media. Parents and adults in contact with children have a great deal of influence on the attitudes they adopt in life.
Simply Stated.
I apologize if I tend to oversimplify, but sometimes simplification allows me to better express my point. I understand that issues have a wide variety of views but trying to express the subtle nuances of an issue can be confusing.
Survival.
Yes I agree, and I touched on this point in an answer 'Sustainability' on Sept. 11 '06. The enrty was on Population growth but the point about dependence on technology was similar.
Cautionary Tales
Those organizations that propose to assist poor countries must exersixe a degree of caution. Successful efforts to improve conditions in one local area must be evaluated as they may not work in another location. A 'one Size Fits All' formula for success cannot be applied in all places. The ThinkTank must have the flexability to make specific recomendations that will fit each local situation. Too often a large organization will develope a rigid dogmatic policy to render aid which ends up making local conditions worse.
Stimulated.
Yes I must admit that there are a few contributors whose entries are less that civil. My comment was directed at those few, not the majority. You have posted many interesting and stimulating entries here and I try to reply to as many as possable on subjects with which I am comfortable. I welcome replys disagreements or questions, often all that is needed is further elaboration to clarify a piont, also I have many previous entries on different subjects and reviewing those may help to explain some points. I hope that you will continue to log onto this site and engage in dialogue.
Independence ?
I will assume you refer to the lack of independence from technology. Technology is a double edged sword, for example transportation, communication and medicine, all use a great amount of resources both time and material, but the benefits of rapid communication, transportation of people and goods, and advances in the diagnosis and treadment of disease cannot be overlooked. There is also an attempt to use these advantages to alleviate the poverty and suffering in poor countries, some successful some not. How many of these benefits should we give up ? Certainly in all areas greater energy effeciency can be achievedwhich would reduce the demand per person. But beyond that to reduce the total population would reduce the overall demand. How much population can the earth sustain naturally (forraging & hunting), have we passed that point ? To abandon technology is unacceptable, how much could we give up without serious consequences world wide ? Like Pandora's box once opened, you cannot put the demon back. On an individual level there is much that can be given up, but on the corporate or national and international level I do not think we can abandon any, there is too much to loose. As for Madamoiselle_Sahara, she registered one day and posted one question the same day, Has she been back ? or is the apology waisted on thin air ?
Bible-Truth ?
The Bible does convey truth to us, the problem is to discern what that truth is. Joseph Campbell states that all Myth/Religion is true, in meaning if not in detail. The details of Myth/Religion are symbolic and should not be taken literally. Those who hold these details as the literal truth are in great danger of disallousionment when sciencs discovers the real truth. Likewise the Bible is largly symbolic, an allegory, it is a spiritual guide, not a historic or scientific text. Any Myth/Religion that dogmaticly holds to a belief that contradicts science is doomed to failure as the data increases.
Nature or Nurture ?
I would like to focus on your last sentence and possibly confuse things a bit. You seem to be equating 'A majority of Sheep' to those of lower intellect and education, and 'A few independent thinkers' to those of higher intelligence and education. Then attributing that correlation to genetics. I believe that genetics is only partly responsable for a persons ability to think and reason. Parents, relatives, and friends have a strong influence on a persons attitude toward the world, if they will look critically and question, or just meekly accept things as 'the way it is'. Certianly greater intelligence and education will enhance one's ability to resolve issues or questions, but others may just take a little longer to do the same thing. I do not believe that either nature or nurture alone can account for an individuals capability. - Windmill, are you still teaching, if so how long ?
Curiosity Satisfied.
A childs natural curiosity will continue for many years, even to old age, but is often extinguished by the atmosphere at home or school. As long as there is a positive and encouraging attitude by parents and teachers, the student will thrive and grow. When parents or teachers are demeaning or use humiliation as a tool for control the childs interest will wane. Humiliation and negativity are not appropriate for rearing children. When a child shows an interest, encouragement and support are the proper responses. Failure in this will produce disinterested and unenthusiastic students who are doomed to poor preformance. Children will mature to be successful adults when parents are supportive, even in the face of an oppressive school system.
Kindred Spirits ?
Again I think we are more in agreement than not. I see some interesting parallels, I lasted seven years teaching (I must be a bit slower than you) and only realized later that I wasn't very good at it. I also could not relate to the students, coming from a small town and dealing with basicly inner city students. I discovered years later that what I was teaching in Industrial Arts was far removed from common practice in industry, (in 3 areas - Drafting, metal work, and printing). on your third reason you must remember that the winners get to write the history books, and often are grossly inacurate, but eventually the thuth may come to the surface.
Reverse Population Growth.
I agree that population reduction is most important to alleviate poverty and hunger. My concern is what is the Carrying capacity of the earth using modern, mechanized farming methods, and have we exceded the Earths natural carrying capicity, as in foraging and huntiing.
Information Appreciated.
I must concede that we do not share a common experience. In North America with a lower population density most animals are free to roam open spaces. There are a few places that keep animals in a closer environment, but I believe that most if not all can move around with some degree of freedom. I expect that in continental Europe, with it's higher population density, growers have been forced to resort to the Animal Factories you refer to in order to save space. I would agree that these types of facilities are unaceptable, but that leaves the quandary of demand and lack of space for proper production. I will visit the web site and I offer my moral support to abbolish such practices, but I do not know what I can do from here, to help. Thankyou, and Windmill, for being more informative on this issue.
Film Making
Good luck in producing your documentary. My first thought was of the PBS (Public Broadcasting System) in America and a series of documentaries produced by Ken Burns. His films do not have the feel of propaganda and appear to be well researched and presented in an unbiased manner. If they are avaliable you could review them with an eye to technique, to help your own efforts. One bit of advice be extremely careful that any archival footage you use relates to the subject at hand. I have seen many documentaries on WWII Naval history, and a most disturbing aspect, is using film of a ship that had nothing to do with the subject and was not from the correct navy. Also do not be afraid to use longer clips, there is a false notion among some film makers that viewers can only watch a few seconds of a scene at a time.
Peta
Hello Balbina, I went to the Peta site, but being unfamiliar with the site, could not find the information about the Animal Factories you refered to. Could you guide me to the place on the site where that is posted, or direct me to another, with that information. Thankyou.
Polytheistic or Monotheistic ?
Hello Zombie, You seem to be familiar with Hinduism, I have heard it catagorized by those outside the faith as polytheistic. How do Hindus regard themselves in this aspect, or are they not concerned with such labels ?
Rephrase.
May I suggest that you post again with a rephrased question and answer. That way you could express yourself more completely on this issue.
There is One God.
I was not suggesting that you were a Hindu but that you seemed to know something about it. I had forgotten about Pantheism, as part of the Hindu belief. The Monotheists I am familiar with do not see God fighting other Gods, but fighting other peoples belief in Gods that do not exist, a slight difference. I am also open to the idea that God has reveiled himself to many different people, in different places, in different ways.
Quality Control ?
Thankyou, I will visit the sites as time permits, but I have a question for you MBL and Windmill about the facilities you have reported. In the USA There are agencies of the government, Local, State, and Federal that inspect and regulate the facilities that produce products for Human consumption, to assure the quality of food products. Are there similar agencies in Germany and the Netherlands, and if so how can these facilities continue to opperate with conditions so bad for the animals. There must be diseased and unhealthy animals, Why are the Animal Factories not shut down by the inspectors ?
Escalation.
So far all I have seen on this issue is what you and a few others have posted on this site, and the content of some of the other web sites. I do not know how much of a followiing you have in Germany or the Netnerlands but if you numbers are small a simple boycott will have little effect, other than personal satisfaction. Here in Americs small groups have made significant changes, I could give a few examples if you need. If you have not done so I would suggest getting your massage out to more people, public access Radio or TV, Independent newspaper or broadcast. Once the public is aware of the issue a few peaceful demonstrations or rallies may get some news coverage in the main stream press. But the message of Animal Cruelty must be primary, and boycotting meat, for this purpose would be secondary. If a boycott becomes widespread and successful it should also include resturants that include meat on the menu. Finally extend it to stores that sell meat or animal products. It could work if a large enough portion of the population participate. One final point, if not all animals for meat are raised in unacceptable conditions, it may be advisable to focus only on those that are, it may be easier to get support.
Shock and Shame ?
Peoples attitude toward Sex, like thier attitude toward education (see my answer "Is quality education possible Dec. 6 '06), is a reflection of their parents attitude. The more Puritanical and restrictive, so will the children be. In my experience children do not want to know that thier parents 'DO IT'. In fact, one young person, I spoke to many years ago, figured that the number of children was a good estimate of the number of times that the parents have had sex. F.Y.I. I did not object to or report your original question, however if it was an attempt to gather information, this is not a good venue. If it was to provoke you have been mildly successful. I do note that you have not offered your own answer to the question, lead by example. Or perhaps you feel distress and shame when talking about sex. I may see your reply before it gets censored.
Some Additional Comments.
I believe you have made some very good suggestions to improve conditions in the industrialized nations. However in regard to your comments on Darwinism I would suggest that both nature and society survive in an atmosphere of cooperation and competition. There are many examples of cooperation within and between species but there is also competition within (as for a mate), or between (predator and prey). Business and society opperate the same, competition to get a job, or to bid for an order, and cooperation to get certain jobs done that one could not do alone. Neither cooperation or competition rules alone, there is a ballance. I would like to add one more point to improve conditions world wide. Many western natons engage in large programs of foreign aid, to any aid given certain conditions should apply. Any nation receiving aid must provide complete access and transparency to any representative of the nation providing aid, to insure that the aid reaches the intended recipient. Failure to do this must result in the immediate cessation of any aid, monitary technological, or military, untill the problem is corrected. This would prevent the wealthy few from receiving that wich is intended to releive poverty, and may help to reduce the risk of war. I would now like to comment on Glogal Warming which seems to be a 'Hot Button' issue lately. Pollution and the waisting of recources have been addressed elsewhere, but Global Warming has in many places been grossly misrepresntatited. Two things we know for sure, the climate will be warmer, and ocean levels will rise. As for the former, climate is the average temperature year round and does not directly relate to the high's and low's. The result may be a more moderate temperature year round, with warmer winters and moderate summers, NO ONE KNOWS ! ! ! The ocean levels will rise and much property will build up, much like Venice over the centuries, or (at their own risk) build dikes and pump water. The best estimate of world wide conditions comes from the past where a warmer climnate resulted in lush and plentiful plant and animal life on earth.
Tool Making
Antibiotics are an interesting suggestion as an impoprtant invention, but I am still inclined to favor Tool Making. I should have been more specific concerning Fire, it does occur naturally, but the ability to make and control Fire was a major advance, however it was dependent on Tool making. So I will return to that as the most important since without it nothing else could have been invented or discovered. Tool Making is the basis of almost everything, with the possible exception of Language, but was that invented to pass on the knowledge of Tool Making ?
Important = Early ?
I believe that some points could benefit from further clarification. For this dialogue, The definition of language should be widened to include all forms of communication. In this light language would have been a gradual developement, as opposed to an individual suddenly assigning different sounds to objects and actions. I would also submit that the earliest shelters were natural formations, such as caves, and did not require tools. Many of these show evidence of fire and tool making. Man made shelter that required tools came much later. It has occured to me that this dialogue has progessed to equating the most important invention to the earliest. Is this valid or is there a later invention that would eclipse tool making in importance ?
Some are Amusing as in 'Funny Sad'
My question was the result of accumulated frustration, browsing this site from months before the Sept. 9 '06 Round Table till the present. As indicated before many log on to this site and regard it as a frivolous joke and post accordingly. I come to participate in civil dialogue on important or interesting subjects, and to see the space wasted is annoying. Another user once asked how some of the questions, being so poor, could be presented to the round table. I could only answer that those who posted questions of little value or substance were the same users who were voting on which to present. As in computers G.I.G.O. I will reiterate my comment that these individuels do not lack inteligence but do lack respect for this venue and for other users. Please review my comments 'Responsability' July 17 '07 and 'Surprised' Oct 24 '06.
Biomimicry ?
Could you please elaborate on what 'biomimicry' is. I have a vague idea but would like to be sure. Also explain why it is so important, as some, myself included, may not understand it's significance.
Let's muddy the waters.
Hello 09667aco, This dialogue has acheved a level of agreement, however there seems to be some queston, exactly what is an invention ? Language and walking on 2 legs have been suggested, but are they inventons or natural developments ? Is mimicking an existing design or concept an invention ? Several others are dependent on the earlier invention of tool making, can a later one be more important than it's predecessor ? Finally shelter was suggested and the earliest were natural formations, such as caves, but man made shelter has a siginificant importance. Now man could move freely and was not dependent on existing sites. Humans could occupy any place, any climate. Is man made shelter more important than tool making, tools made moveable shelter possible, but shelter gave man mobility, the freedom to move to other locations.
Cautionary Tales.
This is a very exciting development and it is what I expected. The example of the wing is excelent and must have been from a soaring bird as other types would not be suitable. And herein lies the only problem, designers must be selective and informed on the biological system they attempt to copy. The jellyfish will illustrate my point. Fopr many years sceintists have observed this animal and concluded that it was a very poor and inefficient swimmer. Then someone observed it more closely and discovered that it's motion was a very effecient way of feeding. The movement pushed water with small creatures and microorganisms past its tentacles. The design you intend to copy must be appropriate for the job to be done. Training and education are not a sure sign of good judgement. In a manufacturing plant there was an opening for a draftsman with an educational requirement of an associate degree. The personal deptartment (experts in thier field?) offered an individuel with a bachlors degree as well qualified, if not over qualified. The supervisor rejected the candidate as not qualified, as his degree was in biology, and he had no knowledge of drafting. Careful and appropriate choices must be made for this to be successful.
Keep Posting.
I hope I don't sound like a smart-ass, I'm trying to be serious (mostly) but that is probably one of the hardest errors to catch. Since you wrote that way the first time it still looks right till you press the 'submit' key. Even if you do like I do, write it out, type it in, proof read it, and go thru with a Dictionary checking spelling, errors still creep in. Keep posting your thoughts, and post a correction if necessary, I'm more interested in ideas, than catching mistakes.
One More Stir.
I agree that this question has seemed to elicit some conversation, and must be of some value. Now to stir things up a bit more, I would like to offer a discovery that has eclipsed tool making in importance, and is there a comperable invention. Tools led to technology including the telescope, using this in the 1920's Edwin Hubble discovered galaxies outside the Milky Way. Till then our galaxy was considered to be the whole of the universe. He went on to find that all the galaxies are moving away from us at a predictable rate, leading to the knowledge that the universe had a begining, later proved in the 1960's. The Big Bang, the begining of space, matter, and time, happened aproximatly 15 billion years ago, and is a fundamental change in our preception of the Cosmos. Previously the universe was thought to be eternal, infinite, and unchanging, that has totaly changed. Is there an invention that holds a similar place in history ? Man Made shelter, because it offered mobility, was considereed. Perhaps communication, starting with the telegraph, progressing to our Global web of instantaneous communication, has fundamentally changed the way we know about, and view, the world.
Emperical Data.
The question here does not address the existance of God, or the correctness of any religion, but goes to the issue of how is that religion viewed by it's followers. This would be empirical data, as a simple question could get an answer, provided the question is understood. I would submit that there are many people in the world with a very definate answer. The level of fanaticism with the 'I'm right and You're wrong' attitude should attest to the number who believe they have 'The' Message. The existance of God, the text of the message, and much of the dogma surrounding it are largely irrevelant to this question. The exception is the teaching of exclusivity. If you can accept that you have 'A' message, and may not have the complete message, you can possably accept that others may have something of value to share, and be ready to accept their right to exist, and believe as they choose.
Oneness.
It is possible that most browsers do not understand the question and cannot form an answer. One note of clarification, when I comment on a religion, the reference is to the original teaching as much as possable, as later human enhancements and interpretations are often wildly incorrect if not dangerous. In that light all the world religions can be reduced to monotheism with generally the same teachings. Those clasified as polytheism may be the victums of faulty semantics. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have one God with many Angles. Others have one cheif God and many lesser gods. Hinduism has one chief God Brahma with 3 aspects, including Vishnu, and Siva, forming a trinity, each with a different function. Sound Famaliar ? Based on the original teaching I would exclude Buddhism as a religion. There was no reference to a Deity and the teachings were secular in content. There were references to the 'One Mind' or the 'Universal oneness' but this was not characterized as a seperate entity. It may have been equavalent to 'The Force' as in Star Wars, a conscienceness based on all life not a seperate deity. So you are correct, there is no worship of a leader or Deity, but teachings of respect and a striving to loose the desire for material things.
Some things are timeless.
As they say 'Its the thought that counts' and it was a rethorical question. It does illustrate that even then there seemed to be a lack of contributors, an occasional drought, so to speak. But patience pays off with a gem now and then.
Loosing Patience.
Of all the countries or nations that exist or have existed throughout history, none have lived up to the Ideals stated when established. All have lofty ambitions at the onset and then quickly degenerate to the pursuit of Capitalism, Property, Power, and Influence. The masses of population and institutions , no matter how well intentioned, have decended to this level. Reason has never been a characteristic of a country as a whole. Reason has always been the goal of the very few. From ancient Greece and beyond, reason was not the governing factor, else why did they condem Socrates to death. Even in your age of reason only a few pursued such lofty goals, the masses were striving for material wealth. This venue has perhaps a dozen to two dozen regular contributors, what infinitesimal fraction of those who have access to the site is that. Please read my entries fully and carefully so that the reply will be accurate and relevant. I DID NOT suggest the Telescope as the most important invention, but the discovery made with it , as an example.
Open to all.
The content of this forum is open to all questions for debate or dialogue, whether empirical facts, or unprovable belief, and to some these are very important as well. I am not aware of any restriction to subject or issue, only that it be a civil and reasoned exchange.
Free will is a gift.
You have made some very good points here and I believe that you are correct. Many apply labels to limit the capabilitys of others because they are unwilling to accept that some may have abilities superiour to their own. Developed societies are placing more emphasis on test scores and numbers than on other human characteristics. I would suggest the term 'Emotional Intelligence Quotient' be replaced with 'Emotional Maturity' as a more accurate description of that quality. Creativity is a result of our 'God Given Gift' of free will. Humans are free to think, reason, and choose. Certainly there are guidelines for our behaviour and actions, but we are not to be passive or acquescent, waiting for god to pull the strings and send us on our way. God gives us directon but has no intention of controling our actions, and like a parent, takes great pleasure in the independent accomplishments of their children.
Wash your bowl.
I would qualify that to say that all religions are the same or similar in origin. However much of the dogma and ritual has diverged over the centuries and now many feel that is as important as the original teaching. The level of violence and warfare over the ages should attest to that. An example of the divergence is the Jewish probition on eating ham, the Catholics modified that to not eating meat on Friday, which brings me to a line from a movie "I'm glad I'm a Lutherin, I can eat anything." Most of the conflict results from one groups lack of knowledge about another. Loosing the desire for material things is extremely dificult in todays society. There are many obligations and responsibilities. If you can acheve a state of understanding, that working to earn money is an accessory to your life, and not the main purpose, you will have acheved the goal. Even Buddhists, with no desire for things, cook their food, and then wash their bowl. They live their life and participate, but it does not rule them.
Please Reconsider
Hello Windmill, I would hope that you will reconsider your decision to withdraw from this forum. As I stated in my Comment 'Stimulated' sept. 14 '07 your posts have added to this site, and it would be less for your absence. If you perticipate in a thread, and find it disagreeable, let it go. There are plenty of interesting issues to explore. I have also found some users who are obstinate and perhaps unkind in their entries, I just move on to the next. This is a good place to express your thoughts, and civil dialogue to be engaged in.
Young and Impressionable
Yes the early years are most important for instilling good values, but many do not realize how subtle the lessons are. Many seemingly innocent comments or phrases can accumulate into a lasting impression. Ethnic jokes may seem funny, but send a message about those of another group or backround. Wnen attending Church do the parents say that we are going because we must go, and then sit at the back to be closer to the door, and do they talk about the other people who were there, or not there, rather than the service or the message. This teaches that religion is an obligation not something pleasant or joyful. Adults may dismiss this idea as unimportant, but very young are more aware of out actions and bad habits than you may think. Be careful what you say and do. I have posted 2 comments on this 'The acorn does not fall far from the tree' Sept. 14 '07 and 'What have we learned' Aug. 23 '07 and the answer 'Hope for the Future' Aug. 12 '07
Victumized
One of the difficulties of this site is that users will often rapidly scan an entry, picking out a few words or phrases, misinterpreting the meaning, and then hurriedly post a reply. Careful reading of what is written is essential for good communication, you and I have both been victums of this and it is frustrating to go round in circles trying to explain yourself when others cannot see what you have written. Keep trying I will read as slowly as necessary to get the accurate meaning. The other problem is that some use a word or phrase and intend a different meaning than others may assign. This can lead to a great deal of confusion, and that is why I try to define key words or phrases in some of my entrys. Good luck, I look forward to more of your posts.
Stress ?
I believe that the user with which you seem to be having a spirited exchange, would fall under the catagory (see my question Sept 26 '07) of having 'The' message from God. Thus his entries are absolute and inviolate, there is no reasoning or compromise and such a debate is nonproductive. If you wish to continue, good luck in trying to sway a fanatic in his oppinion, but you do so without my help. If you are seeking the aggravation to raise your blood presure, this is the thread, I could use a little help that way, but I choose not to.
Correction.
Unfortunatly your definitions are incorrect. Based on an English Language Dictionary, a person of reason is one who can think logically, Who's ideas are based on knowledge, but when new data is presented, can alter those ideas. A person who is so sure of their convictions that additional information will not be considered, or debated, is a Fanatic. When freedom of choice and diversity leads one to accept ideas that are false, then it is time to reach a consensus and find the truth. I suppose you know more about Fascism than I do.
PAX DEUTSCHLAND.
It seems from this and your other posts that there is nothing that anyone can tell you. You have made up your mind and are absolutely unalterable in your beliefs. You are, unfortunately, in the majority, who turn a blind eye to the truth while defending long held ideas. In such a case dialogue is imposable and posting is a waste of time. I intend to continue browsing the site and will reply to reasonable users for a civil exchange. I wish you well in your intellectual isolation. Perhaps someday you'll come down from your Ivory Tower and join those of us in the real world. As for additional data, it has been posted all over this site, you just need to look at it with an open mind.
Serious Fun !
You are correct that participating in this forum can be quite enjoyable, but there are occasionally serious entries posted. The exchange of information and ideas is very stimulating as long as it is courteous in tone. You have raised some issues that did not seem to be just for fun. And there have been times when the give and take has changed an opinion or belief. When someone will not be swayed, or will not listen, it is time to move on. Have fun and keep posting.
Independence ?
Unfortunately you are wrong again, the Dictionary was inspired by God and written by the Prophit Webster, everyone who is in touch with God and free of prejudice knows that. Consensus of definition is necessary for meaningful communication, and those who insist on making up their own will be lost in the dialogue. The human race is a group effort and loners will be left out. Good luck as your posts appear to be cutting you off from the rest of humanity. FYI God dwells with the whole of humanity not with one in isolation.
Keep Smiling.
Hello MBL, As you say this forum can be a lot of fun. There is another user who will jump at just about anything you throw at him. If you can keep your sense of humor and not take anything to heart, it should be a lot of fun watching him dance. LOL
Hot to Cool.
There is a story of a Pastor in a small church where one of the members had stopped attending. When visiting that member he was told that the member could do just fine without being part of the congregation. The weather was cool and there was a fire burning in the fireplace. the paster took the poker and puled one of the red hot embers out on to the hearth. As they talked the ember cooled and went out. so it is with religion, in the company of others, faith is strong but alone it dims and is finally lost. Biblical and other teaching tells us to join with other believers. Peace.
I believe we agree.
The first part I was serious about. Cutting off aid and trade, and also sanctions are a good move. The threat of military action was not serious but just to get a response. I do believe that the US made, and continues to be in error, in capturing and releasing combatants. Supporting the rebels is risky for anyone as we do not want another Viet Nam.
Aid how ?
One point about cutting aid, as the supplies dwindle, the population will become more and more active and may overpower the government. Loss of life is a risk, but any intervention would carry the same risk.
Hi MBL
Hello Balbina, Discovery and gaining knowledge is fun and rewarding, so far your entries have been interesting but sometimes I was unfamiliar with the subject and had nothing to offer. One place where consensus is necessary is in the definition of terms, and I think this has caused some problems. In that light I am not clear on the difference between tolerance and acceptance in this particular usage. Would you consider changing your settings to show online statis. I never know if I should look for a reply in hours or days.
Saving Animals ?
I would like to clarify one small point if I may. The phrase "you can save more than 100 animals each year" may give some the wrong idea, that these animals will not be killed but will be released to live on farms or in fields for the rest of their lives. The truth is if they are not raised for meat they would not exist, They would never be born or hatched, their only reason to exist is to be eaten. They would be spared being raised and slaughtered, but they would not live out a natural life. I just want everyone to understand the result of being a vegetarian, I do not disagree, I just want to be clear.
Life an Invention ?
This is very interestion, and if you widen the perspective, then the developement of life is very important, but is it an invention or a creation ? It could be argued both ways. We could easily credit God with the origin of all things, but the original question is of Human History, and in that light we must limit the scope of the answers. If we were to ask what is the most important (invention/creation/developement) in all of the Universe, we have a much wider range of choices, or do we ?
Dictionary Definition.
These are interesting interpretations of Tolerance and Acceptance. In this venue I believe that a consensus of definition is important to avoid confusion and misunderstanding. I would expect that to many users, English is a second language, and refering to a dictionary would aid in clarifying the meanings of words. Myself, with English as the only language, often use a dictionary, to be sure of a meaning as well as the spelling. That being said, the dictionary definition of Tolerance makes no mention of judgement and does include the phrases "recognize and respect" and "freedom from bigotry and prejudice" which would imply a nonjudgemental attitude. If your understanding is different it may be advisable to reevaluate your definition. Common usage in some locals may vary but a world wide application must submit to a universal standard. I am using a Websters publication which is an acceptated standard.
Agitate ?
Hello MBL, I was about to comment that this site has degenerated to hostile entries and name calling, but then I thought, did you see my post "Keep Smiling" on Oct 3 '07 ? If so you are very good at it. What is *GGG* ?
LOL
So you two are just having fun with each other, and all the animosity is just to keep things exciting ?
Thoughtful.
I'm not the one who is calling names or labeling people, but I still think MBL is good at this. Your exchanges are somewhat entertaining, so I will just watch. Have fun.
Wrong again.
Apparently your 'Experience' is very warped and distorted, gifts from God do NOT corrupt or manipulate, but are for the edification of the reciepient. You need to return to the scripture of your choice for a better understanding of God's message, as yours is clearly deficient. God's definition of love is clearly stated and illustrated in any writing you choose to consult, if you are capable of reading and understanding.
Not really.
No, after watching the first 2 segments I would say that the principels are fundamental mathamatics, but the aplication may be unfamiliar to many. If this issue seems important, a little study and review should be enough to clarify things. Each person cannot know everything and there are going to be some areas that are unknown. Just keep trying.
Meanings are the same.
Does quoting mean that you have no thoughts of your own. FYI not all are Muslim and the Qur'an does not apply to them.
Phraraseology.
I must say that I admire your ability to use words and phrases to talk in circles and confuse the issue. But then if no one can understand what you are saying they will not know if they agree or not. Just keeps things stirred up.
Be careful.
And this can be a problem, with other peoples views on an issue, some critical evaluation must be employed to analyze those entries. The statement must be pursued to its origin and its conclusion to determine its validity. This is simply a logical and mental exersize, based on what you know of the subject. Too many posts are ethereal and illogical and appear to be based on wild speculation with no solid data for support. Of course my own entries are always based on absolutely accurate information. I would urge caution as biased opinion could lead to wildely innacurate statements.
Potentials.
Global Warming is happening, there is ample evidence to support this. Human activity is contributing, and there is much evedience for this. But as you say it is not the only cause. The earth is in a natural cycle of warming, and in spite of what the fearmongers are preaching, it is not a crisis, yet. The climate of the earth has been warmer in the past and it was not a disaster. in fact the Ice Ages had a more detrimental effect on the environment. One factor that concerns me is that if the population goes primarily vegetairian, that will reduce or eliminate the need for land area to raise animals. It would also reduce the amount of land needed to raise crops for animal feed and not all would be needed to grow crops for human consumption. This alteration in the land use could lead many to the conclusion that the earth could support a larger human population. In fact I spoke to one Fool who believed we should Bulldoze natural areas to make room for more people. Not everyone holds this view, but if this minority makes enough noise many could be swayed into a serious rise in the population making the problem worse. More people, more human activity, more pollution, more global warming. Of course a warmer climate could result in higher yields of food crops which could trigger another burst of population growth. In the end it could be a disaster as the human population overwhelms the Earths biosphere.
Gifts and Parables
Gifts from God are gifts of the spirit, they are talents and abilities that edify those who receive them. Gifts of God have nothing to do with material wealth and earthly riches. They are not 'poison' but aid the believer in entering the kingdom of Heaven. The parable of the camel and the 'eye of the needle' was to illustrate that man must place more value on the spiritual, than on Earthly posessions. "The eye of the needle" was a defensive feature of early cities. A camel would need to be unloaded and pass thru the doorway on its knees, thus a mounted warrior could not enter the city, and it was easier to defend. The symbolism is that a rich man must not be so attatched to his Earthly posessions that he cannot give them up. So Gods gifts are an aid to salvation and Earthly riches are a hindrance
Small effect - large change.
Sometimes it only takes a small group to make a change in official policy or public oppinion. The potential for comercial development and profit can have a similar effect. There are many examples in the USA. You are correct that most people are not aware and are too complacent to act or make their voices heard. The population in Europe and the USA is under control but a small shift could change that. In the 'third world' the problem is that when people are struggling to survive, birth control is not high on the list of needs. Also they need to understand that having more children will only make the problem worse. BTW I am not offended by your use of the term 'Holocast' in this way.
Gifts.
The use of 'God Given Gifts' is to further the work of the church, which is to present the Gospel to others, and this does NOT mean to force or coerce them to accept. Their acceptance by the will of God, our task is only to provide access to the Word. The main factor with the gifts is Love, any gift without Love is as nothing. 1 Corinthians ch. 13
Very Interesting.
This is a very interesting question and I would like to see more dialogue, I would also like to contemplate this a bit. If this post does not draw any replies perhaps you would post it as a question. Basicly how responsable are we for the unintended results of our actions. My first thought is that we are responsable, especially if information is there for the asking, which would have averted a bad result.
Contact.
Hello Eyes and Superunknown, The objective that Eyes described was the Sept. 9 '06 round table that is avalable on this site, on the right side of the page scroll down to the 'table of free voices' and by clicking on that you can review the 100 questions and the answers of the 112 participants. To contact 'Dropping Knowledge' scroll to the bottom of the page and click on 'Contact' and there are e-mail addresses and phone numbers. There was a catagory for questions about this forum before Sept. 9 '06 but it is not a current catagory. Good Luck.
Getv Serious
You state that this is, for you, a serious issue and you seem to be asking others to respect your position. Yet the bulk of your entries have been abusive, disrespectful, and not serious at all. You are a real piece of work. If you want anyoue to take you serious and have regard for what you say, drop the arrogance, abuse, and your inflated ego, and say it in a civil and reasonable manner. Till you start behaving like a civilized human being, I doubt that many will pay attention to your issue.
Not very specific.
The first part is from general recolections of the time, during Carters term in office, news reports and conversations of his difficulty in office. The next was from a review of a book by a White House insider who described a number of presidents, this is one quote that I remembered, but have no other information than it was published reciently. the last from comments from people who seemed to have first hand experience.
October Surprise ?
There is one incedent that I remember that was a factor in his failure to be reelected, Excuse me if I get the month wrong, but I believe it was refered to as the 'October Surprise', it delt with the Iranian Hostage situation, and was a result of actions by his own people, and mostly cost him the election.
Expectations
Hello Eyes, I do not think you will get a reply from Tillmann. I had some dialogue with him prior to Sept 9 '06 but have had no contact nor seen any entries since. There were some registration issues with the site at that time, and many users did not return. I believe what he is refering to is, can we expect the world population, as a whole, to behave better than an individual or group ? What can we expect ethically or moraly other that somewhere between the best and the worst of those members of that population.
Till the end of Time.
The Universe, the Earth, and the Flesh, are all Gifts from God for our use and understanding, to consider them unimportant or worthless is to disrespect the gift and God. So long as we exist in the realm of Time, Space, and Matter, we are to be good stewards and properly care for this world and each other. The Apocalypse is the end of time and the physical world when we will transcend this world and pass into the Eternal Spiritual realm. This will be the end of evolotion and wisdom, but till then we must live in the world and care for it and each other. Those who believe, understand that we are already saved, and care for this world is done in respect for Gods Gifts. Our actions and works do not earn us salvation, nothing we do can acheive that. Our actions are in gratitude for the gift that has already been given.
Clarification.
Again I am not sure how some of your comments relate to my post. In earlier entries I have stated that evolution is the means of our creation, and it is an ongoing process. And just what is your problem with 'betterment', I said nothing about it posotive or negative. I believe we should do what we can to improve the world and ourselves. I was under the impression, from your earlier posts, that you wanted to do nothing and just wait for the end. Perhaps you should read my comment more carefully before you reply.
In the end.
If your God is the reality of time and space, then at the Apocalypse, which is the end of time and space your god will end as well. Who, then, will transcend you from the physical monkey to the eternal human ? I fear that those of us who are human and hold to an eternal God will miss seeing you in eternity. Do you, like many who look for signs, see body hair as an indicator of the level of evolution that the individual has attained ?
Research.
I would like to recomend that, if you have not done so, type 'Global Warming' into the dialogue search, and review what has been posted already. There is a lot of oppinion on this subject.
Missed the piont.
It appears that you have missed the point of the question. First the "your" refers to whoever is reading and responding to the question, in this case you, Thai Sean. The question is "A message" or 'The message". The discussion of Religion/Mythology is not relivant to the original question. However all religions have a mythological basis, and all mythologies relate man to the world in a spiritual sense and therefore are religous. You seem to have confused mythology with wilderness survival skills. Mythology is spiritual and internal, survival is dealing with the world and external. There is much in both religion and myth that teaches you how to get along or survive. The question is 'is your message exclusive "The only message" or is it one of many messages?'
Good answer.
Aditya123's answer is correct, there is no reason to say that God cannot appear to, or inspire, anyone anywhere. That all religions share a common Mythology clearly indicates a common origin. The divergence and conflict of religion, in later times, is a result of corruption of the original teaching, esentially a misinterpretation. Many religions are so intent on the unimportant details that they miss the real message, and to confuse the Hindu's Pantheism with a multitude of God's is just another misinterpretation.
Why ?
Why are you wasting your time on this site, when you could be out helping someone in need, or put on your goggles and cape and save the world ?
You simply took this too seriously.
That question was a joke, and possibly rhetorical. Also caps have locks and usually when closed will prevent the tailgate from opening, making that lock redundant.
Some subtle hurts.
I would like to add parents who teach their children prejudice and bigotry. Parents who push children into jobs or activities that do not match the tallents and abilities of that child, and parents who show little or no interest in the real tallents and abilities of the child.
Beast or not
The real tragety is that humans have a history of killing and maiming others for largly unimportant reasons. The question is it in our nature to be beasts or can we be civilized ?
All the same but different?
Pagan, God, Christian? All have the same origin. Why does it all appear to be different, Man corrupted it. All Mythology/religion had the same origins, taught the same message. Now we are fighting over unimportant details like children fighting over a toy that will soon be discarded. The spiritual, Eden? do not seek those in a place, a mountain top, a flowered medow, Times Square new York, It doesn't matter where you look till you look within yourself, and if you can't find it there, forget it!! Isn't it interesting the common theme of Mythology throughout history, Gilgamesh, Hercules, Superheros. And look what happened to Ozymandias?
Again?
A good English language dictionary would be an asset for those posting on this site. Slander is a Spoken statement, perhaps you were thinking of Libel which is a written statement? However neither apply here as my statement was true that your post was innacurate. As this site should be for civil and polite dialogue, and open to all opinions, you should not get upset when someone corrects your error. In the unlikely event that I should ever make a mistake I would welcome a friendly comment.
After a little thought.
Sorry, I must have been in a bad mood that day, and I had to think about it awhile, yes I can be slow sometimes. Now I see so many contributers who post, and then add a thought, and then another. Perhaps it would be better if we where not in such a hurry.
Control evolution?
"We control our future?" To avoid repetition please refer to my answer 'The next generation' Dec. 12 '06, and for some other relevant thoughts see my comment 'Life on earth' Dec. 12 '06.
No confusion, they are the same..
Mythology and Religion are but aspects of the same thing, as are Spiritual and Natural aspects on the same whole. All Religions are based on Myth, and all Myth is expressed in Religion. Only leftover Mythologies from dead Religions stand alone. Mythology / Religion or Theology does put one in accord with the Cosmos which is Natural and Spiritual in one. To deny or try to eliminate references to Spiritual, Religion or God is to deny part of our existance, and is dangerous, as those who would seperate Man from Nature. A few of my posts on that - Comments - 'History' Sept 11 '06, 'Freedom' Aug 4 '07, and Answer - 'Seperate Creation' Aug 2 '07. Just as you cannot seperate man from Nature you cannot seperate Myth from Religion, or Spiritual from Natural. Elsewhere you expressed an interest in living as a Native American would have, Their way of life was based on Religion and Mythology together. If you do not believe in God, you will not understand any of this.
Better empty than wrong.
Even worse are those who fill their heads with useless and incorrect information, and regurgitate it to mislead and misinform those who are less able to discern the truth from that which is false.
A clean mind ?
If you can't think of something nice to say. . . or if you have nothing to contribute, don't say anything at all. Contributors to this site will generally 'reply in kind' and from your posts it seemed that you favored the Arrogant, Rude and Abusive, but I see that was only for yourself, and expected others to be civil and polite in return. It's good to understand your intent but it isn't going to happen. Apart from your manner, your information is somewhat lacking, but I would prefer to allow you to review and discover your own mistakes. It's an old teaching technique used by a master with a student, and the lessons are better retained that way. BTW I did not forget about people who are brainwashed or indoctrinated into believing that someone else knows what is best for them.
Peaceful Solution ?
The only problem with peaceful dialogue is that both sides must be willing to negotiate in good faith. When ond side's stated aim is to destroy the other and responds with bombs and other terrorists act, the other is forced to defend. Appeasement was tried prior to WWII and Germany and Japan still attacked those who were working for peace. Only when the militant Islamic fundamentalists abandon their goal of the destruction of Israel, and all of the west, can any progress be made. The 'Stone Age Mentality' is on the side of the Terrorists.
Ozymandias
Ozymandias is a poem by Percy Bysshe Shelley "I met a Traveler from an antique land, Who said, 'Two vast and trunkless legs of stone stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, and wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that it's sculptor well those passons read, Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed: And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings, Look at my works ye mighty, and despair!" No thing beside remains. Round the decay of that Colossal wreck, boundless and bare, The lone and level sands streatch far away. I hope the poem comes out right. It seems the sin was pride, to think that any work of man could last more that briefly. I believe that there is a historical site that inspired this poem.
Abstract Post?
Hello Ozm8, I wanted to say that I enjoy your posts, you said that you are an Abstract Artist, and it seems that some of your posts are a bit Abstract. I need to read them several times to get it, but then Art (I was going to say 'good art' but it seemed redundant) is best appreciated repetedly, each time something new is discovered or realized. Perhaps you don't think of your entries as art, but they are sort of poetic at times. I do not see mine as artistic but crafted.
Teacher or Student.
Yes a difficulty in the effort to pass wisdom on to others can be attributed to the wise persons lack of skill in teaching, but as a person gains knowledge and experience, that ability will be improved. On the other side, some people who have gained a little knowledge, will believe that they know a lot, if not all, about that subject, and anything outside of that information will be discounted as foolish. So due to lack of experience and understanding good advice is rejected.
Hello.
First of all what makes you think this comment was directed at you, it was a comment about people in general, your EGO is showing. As far as being childish, I'm not the one calling names and making threats. If you don't care what I think why are you hunting my entries to reply to. Also your anger is showing, perhaps some therapy would help, a dictionary would help as well. The trouble with newbies is that they come on to a site and want to tell everyone how it should be done.
Man vs. Nature
Interesting Biblical and religious references here, and you are properly using Myth as telling the truth. Man's seperation from narure is his own doing, but some are less seperated than others. There is certainly a difference in the understanding of someone living in New York City, compaired to an aborigine living in the wild. The seperation is only Intellictual, as physiologically man is still a part of nature just as all other life on earth.
Seperate or not?
There seems to be some contradiction here. In your post 'Response to thedoc' on Dec 11 you state "You can't seperate man from nature man is nature." And then in 'Mans fall from nature a Biblical myth' on Dec 21 you say "Man has become so far apart from nature he is destroying not only nature but himself." Each post seems to be saying something different and I would like to know what you really believe. Also you have stated that we do not need religion, and here you are using religious references. A consistancy of ideas would be appreciated.
Accuracy.
Please see my Post 'Again' on Dec 8 '07 for a clarifaction of Slander, or consult a good English Dictionary. A civil tone would be conductive to mature dialogue.
Time to clear your head.
Hello Stuart, Whatever you are drinking or smoking, I think you should lay off for awhile.
Good choice
Thai Sean made the right choice, he departed with his best post yet, He was quoting someone else.
Hope with Action.
You are correct, that HOPE without action will produce nothing. My hope for this question, was that contributors would express hopes in conjunction with actions and goals that are actively being pursued. One of my hopes, along with my participation, is that this forum will produce ideas that will inspire others to action in whatever venue suits their talents and abilities. However that is one result we may never know.
A thought.
One thing about Hope is that it usually precedes an action or activity. The anticipation of a good result or successfull outcome is Hope, and that is what stimulates many to actively pursue a goal.
Rights vs. Values.
You are correct, and I believe that we are in agreement. See my Answer 'seperate creation' on Aug 2 '07. However we may be using 'rights' in a slightly different sense.
Freedom to choose.
Hello, Just a little clarification, Human rights need to be written so that all will know what they are. In Nature the rights, or more properly, Natural Laws are in the Rocks, Trees and Animals, need not be written and are immutable. Those who try to alter or control them will suffer. All citizens, all people of the earth, are responsable for the environment. Those in power only have what is given to them by the people. The responsability for Consumerism must lie fully on the consumer, again the people, who but the products. Noone is being forced, against their will, to but anything. We all have the freedom to choose what and how much to buy. The majority have chosen Consumerism. Those in power who produce and sell are only catering to the appitite of the masses, they can create nothing without those who buy the products.
Evolution ?
Interesting speculation on the future of human life on earth, unfortunatly most people are not as sane or rational as that. If you would like a more realistic view of Human evolution see my answer 'The next Generation' Dec. 12 - 2006.
Understanding God ?
If God's understanding is our goal, perhaps we should aspire to be better than human understanding. Yes in human tearms creating and becoming have different connotations. What is wrong with 'properly' paying Homage to the creator, who has become the universe (not as some Religions may teach) and realize that we came from nature, and will return to nature (God). I think, however, that 'Becoming one with God' may not be the same as 'Becoming God' ourselves. This may be worthy of more dialogue.
Gentle Compassion
I appreciate your comments and your optimism. I do not have a good reply. It is possible for people to choose a good environment and make good choices in the way of living and believing. Some will see this as elitist and despise you for trying to be better than they are. I see too much bigotry in the world to overcome for the human race to move forward as a whole. There is not enough space on this site to list all the cases of one group hating another for no good reason. You made reference to God, there are many religions that have strayed from the original teaching and have become divisive, and some to the point of violence. Knowledge of God may help us to find a better way, but most religions have become part of the problem. Care must be exercised when behaving in 'an utterely compassionate way', as there are some whose pride and ego will see it as condescending and react with hostility. Any behavior towards others must be done gently with a good understanding of the others needs and desires. And yes 'pride and ego' are major obstacles to achieving the vision of the future that you express.
Read without the rose colored glasses.
You seem to miss the point that this last post was a quote from someone else, which is why it was so good. The previous entries of Thai Sean were condescending and arrogant, and the site is better without them. If you appreciate his comments than you have not read them very carefully.
Knowledge vs. Common Knowledge.
I agree please see my post 'Common Knowledge' Feb 25 '08 for an example.
QE also
Very interesting concept, there is some research into the idea that this could be used for instantanious communications over a long distance, as in space travel. If a technique could be found to transmit information in this way, that would mean communication at speeds 'Faster Than Light'. This would be a monumental discovery, if data can be sent FTL then why not matter? In a more down to earth case, there are reports of Twins who share the same tastes, interests, and feelings, when seperated. Even when they have been apart for many years at great distances. Could this somehow be related to QE? Both concepts are worth thinking about.
Choices.
Here we have a paradox of human evolution. In order to evolve into beings that practice Love and Compassion, we must create a society (environment) that favors those traits. To do that we must confront leaders and capitilists who are responding to their R-complex instincts of aggression, territoriality (property and wealth), and Hierarchy. Confronting them will most likley engage our own R-complex. Even if we confront and overcome them with non-aggressive means, there remain numereous factors in our society that favor the R-complex. The ideas of Property, monetary wealth, and athority of one person over another, are governed by this part of the brain. Much of this is tempered by the higher functions but the basic instincts still rule. Our entire society will need to be restructured for humans to evolve into better humans, but this will need to be done by those who are still influenced by the reptillian center of the brain. It's like the horse and the cart constantly arguing about which is to go first. The problem is that there have not been enough generations for significant evolution to have occured, and the current environment (different in detail) favors the same survival techniques that worked in pre-historic times. Now most threats are man-made instead of animal predators, but the response is the same at the neurological level. Human (or any other) evolution must happen in response to outside influences (the environment). Change does not happen from within a species. No amount of thinking, wishing, or talking will change humans. Only when society favors the traits we want will those characteristics become a reality, and perhaps the R-complex will diminish in influence over us. Final thoughts, political leaders can be controled by intelligent voting, Capitalists can be controled by the intelligent purchasing of products.
Small change - Small effect.
I hope I have not mislead you into thinking that the increase in CO2 that you refered to will lead to a Venus like climate. CO2 was only one factor and possably only the trigger that started the process. On Earth estimates are only for a few degrees of climate warming, and what part of the yearly cycle, will be affected, is not known. In the distant past a warmer climate has ment pole to pole tropical environment, with lush plant and animal life over the whole Earth. Sounds like a nice place, not the disaster that some are predicting. I believe that those who are predicting a catastrophy have some other agenda to promote and are seeking to gain political power. Please review my earlier posts - Answer 'Global Warming? No one Knows' Nov. 21 '06 - Comments '3 in 1 if you don't mind' Nov.19 '06 - 'Climate Change' nov.20 '06 - 'Life on Earth' Dec. 12 '06.
Deciding, yes or no.
Everyone has choices throughout their lifetime, but many chose badly or decide not to chose and are then the victums of events that happen arround them. Many who chose not to see reality have chosen to 'Hide their Head in ther Sand' and will be caught by that reality. Everyone has a choise and needs to take responsability for those choices.
Nice Butt.
Hello Eyes, I always appreciate a nice butt. People chose consumerism due to lack of education, and those in power, comercially, are useing marketing and advertising to educate consumers to purchase their products. Parents need to educate children to be good shoppers, not just looking for the best price but the best value, from an ethical retailer. In the US 'Walmart' Is an example of a really bad choise. In their quest for lower prices they are driving production overseas thereby destroying the base for the market they are selling in. If the american market fails they will move to other markets as they have no interest in preserving the us economy, only is leaching profits for as long as possible. A sound economy is baised on production, distribution, and sales all within the same economic area. When that cycle is disrupted the economy will suffer.
Public Education?
One of the primary problems with the US public school system, is the lack of flexibility. Students who do not fit into the approved mold will not do well. When a student dresses the right way, behaves the right way, joines the right activities, they will do well. Students who do not, will do poorly, and many will fail. Schools put on a show of flexibility with various courses and activitys, but the emphasis is still on conformity. Those who are outside the 'norm' will not be reached and will not receive adaquate opportunities for education. Even in a large and wealthy district the range of accepted behaviors is limited. One change I would make, is to eliminate mandatory attendance up to a certain age. The school should be required to 'make avaliable' an education to each individual, whenever that person is ready. A young person who is unproductive or unwilling to be in school, should be allowed to leave and come back when the value of an education is appreciated. If a person leaves school and is successful, perhaps they do not need that education. If another does not do well, they may realize what they lack, and be more receptive to that education. If this policy had been in place years ago, I might still be teaching.
Timing.
Another defeciency in the public school system is that it is primarily a 'Day Care' facility for working parents but has falied due to inapropriate scheduling. The current scheduel is based on educators desire to beat the 'Ruch Hour' traffic by starting and dismissing early. Schools should properly start and end so that a parent with a regular 9:00 to 5:00 job could drop off and pick up the student on the way from work. This would put the school and students in time with a normal work scheduel.
Small change.
I would suggest a slight alteration, 'To know how to do something is knowledge, doing it is Skill, Knowing when to do it is Wisdom.
Alchemy.
Actually water can be turned into wine, it's just a matter of recombining the parts of the atoms (protons, neutrons, electrons) to form the other elements and compounds that make up wine. The only problems are having enough energy and the ability to control the process. Stars are turning hydrogen into other elements all the time, up to Iron, and then when a large star goes supernova and explodes it forms the heavier elements. During the 'Big Bang', the begining of the universe, the only elements formed were hydrogen and a small amount of helium, every other form of matter came from exploding stars. Stars that do not explode do not release their heavier elements back into space. The Earth, other planets and stars, plants, animals, and people, are all made from Stardust. With enough energy you can reverse the process and break the heavy elements down into lighter ones, energy and control are all it takes.
I'll try again.
Perhaps I was not very clear in my post. The question seemed to ask if an unhappy person can gain happiness by getting married. I tried to say that an unhappy, miserable person will probably not be made happy by others. If a person is happy and jopyful, thay will better be able to share those feelings with others, both giving and receiveing. Yes you can bring joy and happiness to others but the other person must be of an attitude and mind-set to accept what you offer. Many unhappy people will reject your efforts, till they can see for themselves some joy in their own lives, and then see the beauty and happiness in others and the world around them.
Bambi was a cartoon.
Unfortunatly this vision of nature is guided more by Disney than reality. Love benevolence, and caring are all human characteristics, and are only attributed to animals only by wishfull thinking on the part of human observers. Animal behavior is baised on survival and reproduction, Kill or be killed, eat or be eaten, run fast or die. All animal behaviior can be reduced to survival of the fittest, the strong, the fast, or healthy, will reproduce. The predator does not have pitty on the poor weakling and attack a stronger prey. The weak or sick will get eaten. If humans followed the example of nature, Murder, Rape, and stealing would all be accepted as normal behavior. Only man-made law has given us guidelines as to how to live and act towards others. Even with our large brain and the power to choose, Human evolution will be guided by those who produce the most offspring, and those individuals are not choosing by a higher intelectual motivation, but by raw animal lust. The bulk of the human population on earth is not reproducing with a goal of a higher plane of existance. Those few who do will be numerically overwhelmed in the long run. Humans do not have an inborn sense of right and wrong, this needs to be taught, but many are not taught well and are also taught bigotry, intolerance, and hate. Animals are not humans and do not have those qualities, but humans are animals and many exibit those characteristics.
maybe ?
What about the Hawks that will take a Dove, or the Crows that will take a chick from the nest if it is left unguarded. The trouble with this kind of vision is that you can't look to closely or you will see the reality of nature.
Tune in to your favorites.
I would guess that if the 'Electromagnetic signals' from the brain are real they would be much weaker than the signals from brodcast radio stations. So the radio stations would probably drownd out the natural signals from human and other nervous activity. Might explain some of the problems in nature that have shown up receintly. Perhaps before radio, ESP, telepathy, and mind reading, were more common, just unrechognized for what is was. And now comercial radio is bombarding us with signals, that those who can receive, will pick up as music.
Reality check.
Let me inject a bit of reality into this dialogue. 'Bambi' was fantasy, his family, the other animals, and the human hunters, were all the product of a script writers imagination, and bore no resemblance to reality. 'Bambi' could be viewed as a fabel, but the lesson was about Human family and friendship, and NOT about nature and animal behavior in the wild. Real animals do not behave as those depicted in the movie, deer are herd animals and Bambi's father would have been there in the group, with Bambi's mother, and other femails and juvinals, not off somewhere guarding the forrest. Real hunters DO NOT indescriminatly shoot anything that moves, there are limits and regulations, and different game have different seasons. And Please do not assign Human feelings and emotions to animals, That is something that they DO NOT have. Even your pets respond more because you feed and control them, than anything else. Animals do not grieve and feel pain over the loss of one of thier family, they just get on with survival, and reproduction.
City Hawks
The thing about Hawks is that they will take the easiest prey that is avalable, if that is fat, human fed, Pigeons and Squirels, then that is what they will eat. I do not know what city you are refering to, but in NYC there is one called 'Pale Male' who has been nesting with a mate overlooking Central Park. I am pretty sure that this bird was not brought in by humans to attack Pigeons, but came in on his own. There was a bit of controversy as some approved, and others objected, saying that they did not want their children seeing a hawk taking prey in the park. Sounds a little overprotective Bambi-ish. I believe everyone should have some understanding of what nature is about, it seems that many in the city are sheltered from the reality of nature. There were also a pair of Falcons in Harrisburg Pa that got a lot of attention and approval.
Legal definitions.
I believe that, simply stated, when you swing your fist in someone's direction as if you are trying to hit them, that is 'Assault'. If you actually hit them, that is 'Battery'. So 'Assault and battery' is when you swing your fist, or whatever, and hit someone with the intent of doing them harm. I believe Verbal Assault is refered to as 'Summary Assault', in legal terms.
Relationships.
Hello Ariel, please forgive me, I am not trying to beat others into submission, but when I see something that I believe is incorrect, I feel that I must respond. I will assume that you are refering to the Post on Feb. 20 by 'Tgrindelmaui' and yes there are points with wich I agree, and the vision of the future is one to which we should aspire but I do not think it is realistic, there is too much to overcome. I am not sure that we should abandon Religion in some form. Human sexual behavior is a way, among many, for people to bond with each other, reproduction has become a matter of choice. I do not know where your family hunts, but in Pa. hunting is pretty well regulated, I personally have seen game comission officers tracking down an illigeally taken deer. Yes I have hunted in the past, but it is not an overwhelming passion to take game, just a pragmatic effort to eliminate pests. Hunting in the east is a necissaty because human activity has driven away all the large predators that could control the deer population, so humans must now do it. Those who object demonstrate a clear lack of understanding of the dynamics of wild animal populations. But I believe I digress again. Human relationships should focus on a loving caring attitude toward others, and children should be taught these along with respect and tollerance. All too often children are taught bigotry and hate for no good reason, probably through ignorance. I have posted several times on this topic, just click on my user ID and then select questions, answers, or comments. There is a lot there, some of it is Dross, but some is worth looking at.
Birds may have their own agenda.
The problem with this strategy is that the Hawks or Falcons may have other ideas about where and what to hunt, and fly away for easier prey. Unless the birds come in on their own I do not think there will be much success with that plan.
Assault.
Let me put this in better order. 'Summary Assault' is a verbal or written statement of the intention to do harm to someone. 'Simple Assault' is the physical attempt to harm someone, like taking a swing and missing. 'Assault and Battery' is when you actually hit another person with your hands or feet, or any other body part. Add some object and that is considered a weapon, deadly or otherwise. In all cases the determining factor is the intent to do harm, a simple accident would not be considered as assault, but proving that, or intent, may be dificult. If I am mistaken perhaps a better legal mind could help.
Joyful distractions.
Friends are good to have no matter where you find them, somewhere it was said that friendship is the greatest gift you can give. It may be comforting to know that you are not alone with a problem, while others may not have the same dificulty, everyone is facing some obstacle that may at times seem insurmountable. In time a solution may be found or perspective will show that it was not as big a problem as it first seemed. In the meantime there are many distractions that will allow the subconscious to work out the details without so much effort. When I take care of my grandson, and he runs up to me with a big smile and wants me to pick him up, nothing else in the world matters much. He always has something to tell me and at 2 1/2 I'm just starting to understand some of what he is saying. But when he goes home I relize that some of the answers have been worked out in my mind. Find some joy in your life and let the solutions come to you naturally.
Marriage and Myths.
Wonderer, Yes it can happen but not often enough, the trick is to know the reason for marriage. If two people are passonatly in love the bond may be weak and break some day. When the decision is as much in the head as in the heart the commitment is stronger and can better survive. I have heard some say 'I married my best friend', this is a bond that is stronger than passon. April, Myths are true as are Fables, Parables, Fairytales, and many more, but the truth is sometimes well hidden. Myths and stories are constantly being retold in new ways, I once heard that all the story lines or Plots had been written by the time of the ancient Greeks or before. I was just watching a movie 'August Rush', and part way thru I turned to my wife and said this is 'Oliver Twist', who knows how many times the story has been retold. All the way from 'Gilgamesh', 'the Mahabharata', 'King Arthur', 'The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner', 'Beowolf', 'Star Wars', 'HappyFeet', stories and myths are being retold. Myths are full of symbolism and to find the truth you must know what the symbols mean. One more point Mythology is the basis for all Religion, all Religion is based on Mythology.
Trying?
Sometimes you need to do something, other times you need to do nothing, as long as it's the right sort of nothing.
Symbolism.
Hello April, Let me start by saying that I consider myself a generalist on many subjects, and will rely on those who I consider to be more expert than myself. In Mythology I would defer to 'Joseph Campbell' for a more in depth analysis. In religion there are many scholors in whichever religion you choose to explore, but the original writings are the most accurate, and beware of scholors from one religion commenting on another religion. As for my comments on Mythology in Religion they are a synthisis of my understanding from both subjects. Every Religious text I have ever studied could be better understood when viewed as Mythology. As I stated Mythology is symbolic and teaches a lesson that is true but many references do not mean what some will take as a literal meaning. I believe that 'water' is symbolic of the inner self, the spiritual, or unconcious. When Beowulf dove into the lake he was going into his own spiritual self to couquer a fear that had been gripping the land, by defeting his own fear he could guide others to face theirs. If we examine Noah, this story was addapted into Jewish tradition from earlier mythology, and was not original to the Hebrews. At some time in the past there probably was a catastrophic flood and one man with his family survived by building a large boat. If it was built on top of a hill the other human population would have ridiculed him for doing that, but as the flood waters rose all the wildlife would have instinctivly moverd in that direction to escape the water. If the flood was widespread it would have covered 'All the earth' as they knew it. There was no Global Flood and the Ark did not carry animals that were not indigenious to the area, but 'All' the Earth was covered and 'All' thje animals were saved, the rest is artistic liscence and embelishment. Please look up 'Joseph Campbell' for more detail on Mythology, and remember much, if not all, Religion and Religious Myth is symbolic.
Survival of the fittest = Evolution.
I feel I must comment here, "we are humans, we are more evolved than animals". This is a misconception by many, that some creatures are more evolved, or are on a higher evolutionary level than others. All life is evolved to a state that best suits their niche in the environment. Humans could not survive, unaided, in the Artic or the Antartic, Yet Penguins and Polar Bears do well in those climates. Humans would not live unprotected at an ocean bottom geothermal vent, but crabs, shrimp, and worms do well in 300 degree caustic water. Each creature is evolved to survive in a particular environment, inteligence, reason, and self awareness are just addaptations to particular circumstances. Thechnology just changes the imediate environment so that we can survive where otherwise we would not. Climb a snow capped mountain and shed your protective clothing and gear and see how long you survive. Clothing and gloves keep you from freezing, boots help you climb, yet there are animals that live there, are they more highly evolved than you? survival of the fittest is the rule of all life. Humans have not escaped this principle. By enacting laws and regulations we have merely changed the social environment and those best suited will dominate and reproduce. Adding more laws or changing them will just change the environment and others will be better suited to prosper. Human technology like social laws only changes the environment so that humans can better survive that some animals.
Toy Trains to the Rescue.
Hello April, you really ask some dificult questions. At first I thought black and white, not shades of gray, but only the simpilest of questions are yes or no. Social issues and others are always a gradation of opiniion that cannot be addressed with a simple answer. I consider myself a generalist, in that I have a broad range on knowledge over many subjects. My interests include Mythology, Religion, Philosophy, Art, in science Astronomy, Cosmology, Geology, Paleontology, the Environment, in technology Metalworking, Woodworking, Railroads and Model railroading, and certain times in History, and a few others. In many areas I rely on other scholars with an in depth knowledge to provide a general understanding of the subject. I believe that this wide range of interests allows me to bring concepts from one subject to another that can, at times, shed light on an issue. In a few areas I have acquired a more specialized indepth knowledge which sometimes comes into play. I have a Degree in Education and taught in the public schools for 7 years, and then have worked in industry for many more years which accounts for my pessimistic view of the public school system. On one ocassion I was working as a draftsman in a manufacturing plant and was to work on some drawings for the installation of some machinery. One of the details was a pair of elevated rails on which a structure with flanged wheels was to opperate. The engineer and draftsman who had done some work on the structure had laboriously calculated dimensions and specified the center to center spacing of the rails. On review of the drawings I sugested that it was more proper to specity the inside guage of the tops of the rails rather than ct. - ct. The engineers reaction was indignation that I would question his judgement on procedure, and ordered me off the project. Later I received an apology and resumed work on the drawings. My knowledge of railroads had translated to a manufacturing setting. Many years ago I had read a lot about Budahism, and reciently worked with, and exchanged ideas, with a Muslim. Both of these experiences have helped me to renew my own Christianity, but not necessarilly on orthodox lines.
Seek and ye shall find.
cfs47, and April, after reading over this thread it seems that you are facing some problem in your lives and are seeking help. This forum is a good place to discover that you are not alone with personal issues, but this site will not solve your problems. I would be happy to be able to say I helped, but neither I nor any other contributer is qualified to do so. If your dificulties are real, as opposed to hypothetical, you need to determine the nature if the problem and seek out someone you respect and trust. If it's financial There are people at the financial institution, where you have an account, who can give you good advice. For personal issues, perhaps a family member. If these are health, or psychological, there are profesionals who are qualified to help. This forum is not suited for intimate personal details of your life, that is for a face to face private interview. There are a few contributors, to this site, who are arrogant and cruel, and their responses would not help. Good luck, I sincerely hope that things work out.
Church and Science.
Hello April, my preference would be to join with others in regular services and activities, however in the Church where I am currently a member, there was an incident which has left me somewhat uncomfortable there. So I am conflicted in that I would like to attend but do not. Also a serious medical condition over the winter of '06 - '07 got me out of the habbit of attending, and the previously mentioned issue does not help. Since my wife is very much involved with this congregation a move is out of the question. See my comment 'Hot to Cool' on Oct 4 '07 Another dificulty is finding others who share my belief on religion and the scriptures. Many have a literal 'Sunday School' belief in the Bible, and many feel that it is either the Bible or science, and the two are incompatable. To me Science describes what God has created, the 14 billion year old Universe, the 4.5 billion year old Earth, Evolution as the means of creating life, and the other discoveries that describe this marvelous creation and how it was done. Religion / Mytholigy the Bible and other sacred writings teach me how to relate to God, the environment, and other people, but I sometimes do not get it right. Most of all I believe they teach me how to relate to myself, sort of a work in progress. So far I have not met anyone who completely shares my views and beliefs, I guess I'm a bit of a renigade, which does make it uncomfortable to join a group where they expect you to accept the stated Doctrin and Dogma. So it would seem that even when I am in a group, I am worshiping privatly.
Rights ? ? ? ?
There are no 'Rights' in nature, this is strictly a concept that relates to Human society. Ever there the only 'rights' are those acknowledged by the majority. Human domination of nature is only by the consent or acquiescence of the masses of people and is done at our peril. Nature does not obey our laws and we will be subject to natural law. See my comment 'Seperate Creation' on Aug 2 '07 as it is relevant to this discussion. 'Inalienable Rights' are those created by society to protect all members of that society from other members. Nature has no regard for our 'Rights', not the animals, the mountains, or the weather. Ask anyone who has gotten into trouble in the wilderness. We are not in control as much as some my think. If an asteroid crashes into the Earth, what good will your 'Rights' do you then. For Humans to advance we must understand that hatred, bigotry, and violence have no place in society. As long as Greed, Lust and Disregard for others exist we will be stuck in this miserable excuse for society. We are here to share the planet with all other people and all other live forms.
Selective history.
When I was very young I was introduced to building plastic models, as many young boys were. I was so young when I built my first models that my older brother had to read the instructions for me. My interests and abilities led me to prefer WWII US navy ships. My curiosity led me to wonder what other countries had built, and why they were designed that way. I discovered physical, economic, and political limits to what could be built, and this was from a selective study of history. As I have mentioned I have a variety of interests and in many cases have explored the historical backround, but always with a focus on the original subject. Unfortunatly time and responsabilities have placed limits on all of us persuing our interests. And yes my knowledge of history has given me some insight on current events, but much of my study was many years ago which will leave me with an idea but not the specific details, which sometimes makes it dificult to site sources or particular events.
ivil Dialogue.
Hello April, yes I would like to exchange ideas with like minded individuals in a civil dialogue, but to often this is a subject where people have strong feelings and are adamant in their beliefs. Perhaps I have gotten to the stage in life where I am just tired of arguing with other people. Too many times a discussiion has become a bit heated and I just do not have the energy to fight that hard. My biggest problem is that I place a great importance on accurate informatin and the truth, many times I have been confronted by someone quoting information that was false or incorrect, just to support their side of the argument. See my comment 'Observation' on Sept 19 '06 this was one case. In another I made a statement that all ethics are situational, and that 'Killing is not always bad' another person imediatly jumped on that and argued that killing was always morally wrong, and then tried to argue for an ethical baseline for all actions. I let the discussion end without pointing out that at every meal we have involves killing something. This other person had read Killing as murder and I would have agreed with his position on that point. However all our actions toward others are based on pre-existing conditions. Many times a discussion will start to get out of hand and I will back down to avoid bad feelings with other people. I have a friend to whom the truth is secondary to a good story, and I just do not feel the need to confront him with the truth. There is a saying 'When in the company of fools keep your own counsel'. Without meaning to sound arrogant I suppose that too often I seem to be in the company of fools. And before you bring up the obvious point, yes many statements are opinion which may not be right or wrong, but I am refering to factual data that can be verified.
Looking for Answers.
As I have said I have many interests and any one of them could lead me to explore history. There is no 'Original Subject' I ment that I try to remain focused on the topic that started my search till I find an answer, or that there is no answer, or run out of time.
Seeking Truth.
I stay true to myself in what I know and believe, these are not written in stone, but are subject to review if new knowledge is presented. I do occasionally attend services for the fellowship and will exchange ideas when the opportunity arises. This site is one forum where I can express myself without stiring up too much hostility. 'Right and Wrong' 'Good and Evil' are human terms and do not apply to nature, but only to man's involvement with nature. What 'truths' are you now questioning, and what are the circumstances and inconsistencies, that led you to this?
A Myth is Not a Lie.
There is a popular use of the word 'Myth' that is leading to some misunderstanding. Those who study Myths and Mythology realize that they tell us something that is true. This common usage implys that myths are false. Your last line should have read "The Lie of our seperateness threatens our survival." I'm sorry but this is one point that bothers me. You are exactly correct about the complexity and interdependence of all life and the environment, see my answer 'Seperate Creation' on Aug. 2 '07. There is another difficulty with our domestic plants and animals used for food crops, many of them need so much care and cultivation that they would not survive in the wild. They have been cultivated to increase output to the point that they are too fragile to survive without that care. Our dependence on high output plants and animals could jeopardize our existance if the system breaks down even partly. The quest to produce more with less is a serious mistake in the long run, with increased output leading some to think that the population can continue to grow without limit.
Thankyou !
Thankyou, that is the answer I was looking for but could not articulate it myself. What is the source of your quote ?
Nonsense !
"The timber companies then leave the land barren and unable to support life", This is nonsense. I have seen land that was strip-mined and totaly overturned and life returned rapidly to otherwise barren land. If life does not come back, it is because someone (Tree Huggers) have salted the land to prevent growth for political reasons. In nature life always returns quickly. Only stupid people would think that timber companies would trash the environment.
Replace or Revise.
Yes i think we agree on this. The explination of your use of Myth is completely acceptable, as I misunderstood your meaning. This is a Myth that needs to be replaced or revised, but perhaps many like this could be read as 'Cautionary Tales' to tell us what not to do. I would suggest that a Lie is something that we should think to replace - With the Truth.
Context.
I have just reviewed the text "The one who has died has been acquitted of his sin" has unfortunatly been taken out of context. Reading what preceded and follows we understand that it is one who has died to Sin, and not one who has ended his life. The death is symbolic with Christ on the cross where our sins are forgiven. So one who dies unrepentant is still accountable for his sins and condemed. Even scripture taken out of context can be misinterpreted and is the source of many of the problems of the world today.
Strength of Character.
Many people do things, and say things that are not in the best interests of others or themselves, those actions and words will come back to bite them. On this forum there have been some past contributors whose condescending and arrogant posts have earned some criticism. With a brused and inflated ego they have cried foul and left, to the betterment of the site. It seems that this site is only for those who are strong of character, with enough fortitude to shrug off or counter criticism. Those who are thin skined and only expect others to fawn over them and praise their posts, no mater how incorrect, will become despondent and leave. Those who post must be ready to defend their position even in the face of poorly informed criticism, though I assure you mine are always well informed and accurate. People who do or say stupid things will reap the consequences
Learning cannot always be fun.
One of the difficulties with the criticism of the educational system on this site is that it is being posted by young people who are still in the system. I do not refer directly to 'Friendship' as this person has presented a valid point. However there have been several other contributors who have obviously still been the educational system and their statements must be suspect. A young person growing up in western society is least qualified to judge what material will best prepair them for life. childhood was spent playing, being irresponsable, and having everything provided for them by well meaning parents. Children in less developed societies, or in poor areas, very early help to earn thier way and learn to appreciate knowledge in any form. Children in the west do not mature will well after graduation when working in the real world forces some understanding on them, and some never gain that maturity. It is fortunate that mature adults are given the responsability for selecting the curriculum, as young people cannot. As for making the classroom fun, as good as that sounds, it is not always possable. Many good teachers do not have that tallent, and some subjects cannot be made entertaining, no matter what you see on TV and in the Movies. Real world education is sometimes very dry and not fun for all. I was a teacher for 7 years, and at times students were hostile to any attempt to teach them anything. Winning them over was sometimes just too much effort. I was fighting not just their attitude but that of their parents as well. See my answer 'Is quality education possible' on Dec. 6 '06. There is a lot to overcome in the west perhaps a dose of reality early in life would change some attitudes, but not all.
Off on another Rant.
To say that 'Higher Education' will destroy spirituality in students depends on several factors. There are college professors who are atheists or agnostics and will present material as countering the existance of God, or the accuracy of the scriptures. Students who are weak in their faith and beliefs will be susceptible to these presentations and may fall from their faith. Students who are of strong will and faith will see these professors as they are and will continue in their beliefs. In academia a teacher is expected to be a 'Man of Letters', that is an author with published works, either books or articles. There is a saying 'Publish or Perish' and this is true of college and university professors. Too many times a paper or book is written that is outside the mainstream just to spark controversy or interest where there really is none. I am reminded of a segment from 'The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy' fiction, by Douglas Adams, where Deep Thought was given the task of computing the answer to the 'really big question of Life, the universe, and everything'. As the computer was being instructed two philosophers burst in and demanded that it be shut down saying that the quest for the answer was the provence of certified thinkers, not a computer. Deep Thought pointed out that as long as they kept attacking each other in the popular press over the answer it would eventually come up with, they could stay on the 'gravy train' for life. This is the case here, to stir up controversy, so that academics will have something to write about and the media will have something to report on, when in reality there is NOTHING. Likewise controversy over science and religion is largely created by the media and misguided religious leaders. Scientists are mostly not concerned with proving or disproving the existance of God or the accuracy of scriptures, that lies with religious leaders who have stupidly adopted a literal reading of scripture, and feel threatened by anything that is precieved as countering that. Religious texts, the Bible and others, are NOT scientific or Historical documents, and those who try to read them as such are making a fundamental error. They are stories and lessons that teach us our spiritual place in life. In education 'One Size fits All', does not work and any attempted implimentation of this policy will be a disaster. The educational program must be tailored to the student. Many will get Jobs right out of high school and vocational training is best for them as they may not have the ability, interest or resources to pursue further education. Others who will go on to higher education are best served by a more general curriculum as specialization can come later. 'The innocence of youth' is highly regarded and wrongly felt to be something to be preserved, so young people are sheltered from the harsh reality of life till they are thrust into it, and often it is too much for them and they fail, or turn to some crutch, other than inner strength. Children need to gradually learn about life and in doing so will be better students and better adults.
Hmmmmmm...
Such an interesting and stimulating thread, seems to have taken a decidedly frivolous turn.
choices.
Depends on your definition of God, according to Odinthecrab the one that is chosen will be pleased, however a mono-theist will say that God will not be pleased if you choose a false God.
Another Rant, Sorry.
There are several points here for which I would offer additional support and comments. On human population see my answers "The Next Generation" Dec. 12 '06 and "Wisdom - Evolution" Oct. 9 '07. On the idea that man is seperate from nature See my answer "Seperate Creation" Aug 2 '07. Relevant to food production See the 2nd part of my comment "A Myth is not a Lie" May 4 '08. I feel that the statement 'Most other species do not overpopulate' needs some further clarification. All natural populations are subject to limiting factors and the numbers will fluctuate over time. Major factors are Food suply and predation. In the eastern U.S. large predators have largely been eliminated, and without human predation (hunting) the deer population would increase uncontrollably, resulting in starvation of the deer herd and all other ground dwelling herbivores. This has happened in localized environments. All natural populations are controled by external factors and are not self-controled. Several endangered species are not being turned into excess food but are the victums of human vanity and ignorance. In some Asian countries Rhinoceros Horn is believed to be an Aphrodisiac and the animals are slaughtered just for the horn. If not for armed wardens, human stupidity and greed would eliminate these animals, and the belief is totally untrue. Another example, though not yet endangered, is orental shark fin soup. Where the sharks are caught the fins cut off and the living animals are then thrown back into the sea to starve to death. Asia is lucky that I do not have the power to exterminate the vermin that support this obscene trade, fisherman, resturants, and customers. Poetic justice would be to cut off their limbs and throw them back out onto the street, all of them. I would also advocate the same fate for those who engage in trade similar to the Rhino horn, pochers, shop keepers, and those who buy the products. Perhaps this would be a start on population reduction, to eliminate the least worthy members of our society. One factor of food production that should be mentioned is that of subsidies. In the U.S. and other developed countries farmers and other food producers are given subsidies, suplimental payments, to keep food prices down. Eliminating subsidies would raise food prices but would also reduce taxes, which could then be used to cover the increased price of food. There are many subsidies that should be eliminated and a free market would determine the prices including fuel costs. Without government interference we would be a lot better off.
The arts.
"Art is a Lie" only in the sense that it is not reality but the artist's representation of reality. The message or meaning of the work is the artist trying to relate truth to us. "A Christmas Carol" was Dicken's attempt to depict the cruelty of the class structure of England of that period. The inhumanity of the wealthy toward those less fortunate.
Different.
I had not thought of Transgendered or intersex children, but since you mention it I agree. I do not think surgeries or forced roles are the correct way. It occurs to me that any child who is 'different' will be picked on and often be treated very cruely by other children and by some adults, but other children are possibly the cruelist beings on earth. I know that children who do not fit the mold can have a dificult time. However I know of one who was lucky in that not fitting the mold her looks and actions scared most other children, and as she was hanging out with some of the tough kids in school, everyong else left her alone, not all are so fortunate. For myself rather than trying to direct my children into certain paths or activities, I enchouraged them as much as possable to persue their own interests, and all seem to be doing well, is spite of any mistakes I may have made. It would be hoped that each generation would learn from the mistakes and sucesses of the last, but unfortunatly many learn the mistakes and perpetuate them to the next.
We do not Agree.
No. Getting two people to agree on something is difficult enough, and the more people in the group the more ideas will be proposed and the more difficult to get any agreement. The greatest strength of Humans, or any other species, is diversity, with that there can never be complete agreement on anything. Disagreement and conflict are signs of human diversity which is esential to survival. There will always be idealists and visionaries who say we should all just get along and agree on how to live and think, they are fools. These idealists are not looking for progress, but blind followers who will do it their way. They are looking for sheep who will follow and not think for themselves. As long as there are different ideas and beliefs there is hope that the human race will advance and grow, not in numbeers, but in spirit. For everyone to get along as in 'One Big Family' would be stagnation and, in the end, extinction. If we all would agree on everything we would all live in our own little hole in the ground and nothing would happen, no progress, no growth, nothing. Conflict may not seem like the best answer, or even a good one, but without it there is nothing worthwhile. People will never agree on everything, the best we can hope for is that they will accept that others have different ideas and beliefs and learn not to fight about it.
I still have questions about this photo.
This is all speculation on my part, An earlier question drew my attention to the photo, and started me wondering what it was about. I assume from the size of the person in the chicken suit that this person is young. Being dressed this way with a bag of treats, sugests Halloween, or are they Onions? The balloon implys a party or a treat? The presence of armed soldiers is troubling, and I thought of a western country with problems like Northern Ireland. Finally I has assumed that the writing on the wall was added in processing the photo, but was it actually painted on the wall and the photo selected for that reason. I would appreciate it if someone from 'Dropping Knowledge ' would enlighten us.
Statistics? What do you want to prove?
Just out of curiosity did you see the date of this question? There is a subtle difference between a Hurricane and an Atomic Bomb. The bomb is very localized starting in a small spot and expanding it's distructive energy outward. The Hurricane is spread out over a large area and may do more total damage but not as intense as at ground zero. The estimates of power may be true but in the case of the half degree in the Gulf of Mexico the effect would be spread out over such a large area as to be unnoticable. Also there is no reason to expect more or stronger storms, since they depend on temperature differences, if everything is warmer no significant change would be expected.
More on the subject.
For a relevant post see my answer 'So many answers, So few are correct' Nov. 18 '06
Late Change.
Yes when a child becomes an adult they must take responsibility for their lives and decisions, including taking the wrong course in life. Starting over is more dificult with added obligations that limit your freedom to change. However past experience, even in the wrong job, can be a benifit in future change, and the wisdom is to use whatever has transpired to guide your new direction. It may be slow at first, but one thing is essential, you must have some support. Going it alone, with everyone against you, makes it almost impossible to succeed.
Right, from the begining.
I believe that you are correct and I think it is miraculous that God could touch off creation with the Big Bang, setting all the laws of physics in place and all matter and energy in motion, knowing where it would end up. Scientists tell us that if the laws of physics had been slightly different, life would not exist, stars and the planets might not exist. For the universe, as we know it, to exist the laws of physics, quantum mechanics, and cosmology, had to be as they are to a very small fraction. It would have been quite mundane if God had started everything and then had to twiddle, and adjust, and tamper with things to get it right. To me it is more miraculous to think that God started everything and then watched, smiling, as everything progressed just as he planed it. A lesser God who did not get it right from the begining does not come up to my expectations.
Nice Try.
Wikipedia is hardly the standard repository of data and information due to the lack of validation of entries. And numerous hits for 'Anarcho-Primitivism' just proves that anyone with a computer can post anything on the internet with little or no corroboration for the information. Even those so labeled deny that label.
Open Hunting Season.
Would it help if Humans were declared non-endangered, and an open season for hunting was established. Better find a good hiding place.
Let's go.
OK for sake of dialogue I will use the term, and I will start by stating that I strongly disaprove of anything that advocates the use of random violence to advance political goals. I would equate anarchy to the current terrorism, and living in a state of anarchy would not be a tenable or safe society.
Great Concert.
My insight helps me to understand that this was some of the best music ever, with really superb performers, Nothing gray about it.
Wonderful Idea.
"Should French fries be limited to those of normal weight?" Absolutely, I think this is a great idea, then all the counter help at McDonalds and other fast food resturants will need at least an associate degree in health and nutrition to assess the eligibility of each customer. And all those discrimination cases will end up on TV courtrooms, I can hardly wait !
No choice.
No, young people do learn from society (Family and Friends). See my answer "Hope for the Future" Aug. 12 '07 As far as choising good or bad the young do not have a choice as to what they are taught. Society does not always stand for what is good but many times has incorporated distinctly evil principles, and learnig a little history will illustrate that.
Anonymous.
It should be stated here that Anonymously posting electronic words to faceless others, can be liberating. Ideas can be presented here that may not be possable to present face to face. The pace of this forum allows for thoughtful contemplation and review. Sometimes in the heat of face to face debate mistakes are made, information omited, and ideas are not stated clearly. Here the ability to proofread, correct, and edit should provide for the most clarity. In this forum it is the words and concepts that are important, and are all that are presented. Our appearance, mannerisms, and idiosyncrases do not become part of the exchange, only our ideas, and the dialogue will procede based solely on the thoughts and ideas posted.
Scrooge ?
I find it difficult to universally characterize the wealthy as stingy and bad mannered. I believe that even if they start out that way, they will soon learn that to get the best treatment from others kindness and generosity are the key. The gardener and the servant will soon leave if poorly treated and paid. Waitresses will not serve so well if poorly tipped. Those motivated by greed and are tight with their money will end up very lonely and poorly treated by others. Most will learn to use their wealth wisely to make life more enjoyable and pleasent
"Cann't"? A good Dictionary would help.
The 'Sun' is not a Diety, It is a physical manifestation of a large mass of Hydrogen coming together and initiating a Thermo Nuclear Reaction which radiates heat and light. The 'Sun' was created by forces initiated by God and therefore created by God, but is not a Diety itself. See my comment 'Right From the Begining' June 1 '08 Also I do not see God as having limitations, If yours does perhaps you should scrap him and look for one more capable. God's only limits are those He imposes on Himself.
Hello
Zotlynn, you state that "It is not for me to impose a definition upon others" and yet you have no trouble imposing your definition on me. It is possible that you have missread my criticism of some who attack corporations. As for my seeming lack of criticism for those same corporations I hesitate to speak of that for which I have no verifiable information. I do not agree with the apparent misconduct of large corporations but much of the criticism is based on incorrect data. Much of the 'real data' is inaccessable and the environmental finatics are not a reliable source. Overt actions are visible to the public, but the internal motivations are not always apparent. See my comment "Truth" Aug. 11 '07 The sense of the post relates to this subject as well as the original, especially the last sentance. As for 'Anarcho-primitivism I will do more reasearch, but so far their answer is unrealistic.
Rant, Rant, Rant, I know, I should just Shut-Up
There have been numerous posts on this site critical of Corporations and Governments for the violence directed at the environment and the human population. If I do not comment it is because the other contributors seem to be better able to expound on the offenses they describe. I would, however, prefer to direct my criticism at the real source of the problem, and if I read you correctly we may be in agreement. Corporations and Governments are only the focal point of the power that commits the violence on this planet. Corporations and Governments only have the power that has been given them. Those who go to a plant site to protest, wave plackards, shout chants, and later go to the store and buy the products, they are hypocrites. The same is true of those who attend a political rally and then sit at home all of election day and complain about the results. The true source of the power is the people, citizens and consumers. The true responsablity lies again with the consumers who buy the product that contribute to the rape of the planet. The constant demand for more, cheaper, throw-away products leads CEO's to provide that to meet consumer demand. Politicions always promise more for their constituents, the lesser known supply of grants, subsidies, wealfare. Human obsession with the latest styles, gadgets, games, music, has lead to the explosion of low quality consumer goods, and the responsibility for this rests solely with the consumer. Don't criticize me because I am not critical of the corporations, they are not in control, we are.
Meanings?
Hello Roark, I believe that there is mutual understanding on many of the entries on this forum but not as many as there can be. I encountered a contributor some time ago who used several non-standard definitions for some key terms. This made it dificult since you needed to remember his peculiar meaning when reading his post's.
Mother Goddess - NOT.
April is correct, the attributes refered to here are instinctive in a woman by the genetic code and little is done by conscious choice. Some may argue that these are gifts given by God for the benefit of mankind, if so they have been given through evolution and not chosen by the individual. There are many mothers who provide care for their children as human beings not a Goddess. I cannot imagine a Diety who would abandon, abuse, or Murder (Abortion) their own child. Perhaps someone who has been totally sheltered from the world can believe the things that Satyam writes, but no-one who has lived among other people can accept such ideas. Satyan Sistla, look up "Partial-Birth Abortion" on the internet and then tell me what kind of a Goddess you worship that would condone let-alone participate in such a heinously brutal act as this?
A few Thoughts.
Hello Zotlynn, Thankyou and I apologize if I was rude or abrupt with my comments. I have not been able to adequately review all that you have posted, but I would like to make a few relevant comments. First could you be more specific on the locations you refer to on Google Earth, as I have not been able to identify the areas mentioned. I did look at some locations in Somerset County Pa. that I know had been strip mined and found farm land or new growth forest. One of the reasons for the direction of my criticism is that if an activist makes a claim that is exagerated or incorrect, and is found out, They will loose credibility, with the people they are trying to reach. One of the problems is misinterpeting data and blaming industrial polution or corporations for an event that may have occured naturally. A recent example is measuring the PH in streams and citing acid rain as the cause, any stream that flows through a hardwood forest will be somewhat acidic. Al Gore is an example of the loss of credibility by making outrageous statements that could not possably be true. It may be helpful to state here that the current situation regarding Corporations, Governments, and Population, is not a problem that has developed with the current generatiion. There are factors of power and abuse that have existed long before the industrial revolutiion. We have all inherited this world from the past generations. This must be understood in order to avoid trying to place blame and get on with finding solutions. It may be possable that with the correct aproach all members of society could be educated as to what will lead to a sustainable society. I believe that attacking and making acusations, true or not, will only cause the other parties to become defensive and counterattack. Voilence just leads to more voilence, somehow the cycle needs to stop. Another factor mentioned in this dialogue and other places in this forum is population. It has not been that long ago that high infant mortality and childhood diseases ment that parents had to have a large number of children so that a few would survive to adults. Within the last century the infant mortality rate has dropped dramaticly and most serious childhood diseases have been eliminated, add the extension of the life span of the elderly and population has increased at an alarming rate. The problem is compounded by the residual desire of many to have a large family. A statement was made several years ago, and I assume that it is still true, That 'Of all the human beings that have ever lived on the Earth, 25% are alive today. I feel that education is the key to finding a realistic solution and it would help if the truth was known, accepted, and acted on at all levels of society, but especially at the 'Top' among those who are the focus of the power. - - - - It just occured to me to wonder what the effect would be of Legislation providing that any Corporation, coming forward with information on polution by that company and then initiating a clean-up, would be imune from prosecution for that offense. Worth a thought ?
A Condensed Verson.
Yes, and for a more condensed version see my answer "Seperate Creation" Aug 2 '07 and contributing to this concept answer "Ivory Tower" Aug 14 '07.
Well Preserved
Well thats true, but how many drugs and hormones have been fed to the chickens, and how much has the meat been processed with salt and other preservatives. What about the pesticides and preservatives sprayed on the vegetables used in the salads ?
Question.
I would like to know what is your primary concern with all the data you have posted. Is your main interest in prosecuting and punishing the CEO's and corporations you feel are responsable, or do you have an interest in getting the mess cleaned up and stopping further abuse of the Earth ?
A few comments.
Hello Zotlynn, I must say that the volume of information that you have posted is impressive, and apparently I have not been looking at the same sources as you. When I tried to locate sites on Goggle Earth I found that much of the state does not allow the resolution to determine what is taking place, and I do not have latitude and longitude on my display. I found one location near Amhersdale that I was able to zoom in and identify as a mining opperation, but several others did not have the resolution to zoom in very close. While I appreciate your enthusiasm for the issues you raise, I do not think this site will do you much good as far as getting a message out. Keep posting but at any one time there are probably not more than a dozen active users, and I suspect not many more are reading the entries, with a world populatin of billions, that is infinitesimal. It is more like a private chat forum for me and a few other posters, sometimes it feels down right lonely. I may not reply to every issue you raise as my computer time is limited and there are other topics that get my attention. I do condem any crime whether I am aware of it or not, but I will not comment where I do not have the information, and since you seem to be better informed please continue. But please try not to be confrontational in this forum, I believe that most of us are on your side even if we do not say so. Yes I know that I have been a bit harsh at times but mostly to posts that seemed silly and frivolous, and ocasionally I regret my initial reaction. When the issue is serious my aim is to have a civil dialogue. Anarcho-Primitivism is still a bit of a puzzle to me and my reasurch time is limited as well.
Good Point.
I believe we agree in principle if not in detail, see my answer 'Sustainability' Sept. 11 '06.
Internet Search.
Do an internet search on "Mass Extinctions" and you will find more than is practical to post on this site.
Not so.
Logic depends on facts and empirical data. Faith in something that cannot be proved has nothing to do with logic and is neither right nor wrong, except to the believer to whom it is correct. Do not equate formal logic with personal belief, there is no corollation.
Crushing ideas.
Hello April, while we may never know the exact structure and mechanism of a Black Hole, scientists can discover something about them. One is the mass, by observing objects in orbit around them they can determine the mass. There seems to be some question of how massive a star must be to collapse into a Black Hole, but thru accretion of matter falling in, it can grow to billions of solar masses. That is a lot of matter crushed into a very small space. There is some question if the concepts of Space and Time have any meaning inside a Black Hole.
Good question.
I believe that the explorers were able to find locations that matched the account of the voyage in the Odyessy, But I do not recal that they were able to identify descendants of any of the creatures or characters in the story. I'm sure that many of those descriptions are the victum of embellishment and exaggeration, to make a more exciting story. However an Island with women on it would have been a temtation to the men on the ship.
Scientific Method.
Sir Issac Newton was a Mathematician and a Scientist, if he was a phlisopher it was secondary to the prior. His findings were based on observation, experimentation, and verification, not intelectual concepts with nothing concrete to support them. Indeed reason and thought are part of the scientific process but if an ides is proven to be wrong it is abandon, unlike philosophy which endlessly argues unprovable concepts to no viable end. Often one person will state a hypothesis and it will be considered as such till someone can verify or disprove it. His hypothesis on gravity was eventually proven by observation and experimentation by many others, and is now accepted as a proven theory. Also the phrase "It's Only A Theory", Is used by ignorant people who do not understand science or are trying to minimize what is accepted scientific fact.
thoughts = words ?
This is an interesting speculation, are our thoughts defined by the words we use or are the thoughts pure meaning and the words just the labels we attatch to them? If we were able to communicate telepathically would it be the meanings of the thoughts or would two people who do not share a language be unable to understand each other? Do our minds work with thoughts that are independant of the language we have learned?
Lets clarify some points.
In reference to the original question I will stand by my answer, on an understanding of phlisophy based on the classical Greek of Socrates, Plato, and Aristottle, to the present. However what is proposed in Anandavala, and in your posts is significantly different from classic phlisophy. New thoughts in metaphysics that incorporate observation of the physical world are far different from the previous discussions of reality. Any debate on the nature of the world devoid of observation of that world is meaningless. There is definitely a place for spirituality of some form in science, provided a spiritual explination does not inhibit scientific discovery. To illustrate this, Steven Hawkings was told by the Pope that science should not examine the first moment of the Big Bang as this was the moment of creation and the provence of religion and not of science. Such restrictions by anyone are unacceptable. Could you elaborate on your concept of spirituality that you invision being incorporated with science, I already have a good understanding of science and technology,
Reasonable Limits ?
Both Science and Spirituality incorporate individuals who think beyond what is known and such ideas are what drive all forms of knowledge forward. these ideas cannot be accepted out of hand, but must be tested by observation, experimentation, or reasoned debate based on sound logic and concepts. In such processes limets are necessary to keep the dialogue on subject, ideas brought in must be relevant, or the discussion will ramble to the extreme and the result will be unrecognizably diluted. Each concept should have it's own thread in order to reach some understanding. I accept that there are those who are attempting to find an overall understanding of everything, and those who study details will contribute as all the small pieces come together to form the complete picture.
Follow your Bliss.
Perhaps the simplest answer would be from Joseph Campbell to "Follow Your Bliss". If I understand it correctly it means to do what makes you happy for your life's work. Jeanne D'Arc did so by speaking her own lines, not those of others. Following her own training, not that of others. And living up to her own expectations. Some may say how can being burned at the stake make you happy, but if she was true to herself, then she must accept that truth, even to the betrayal for what she believed. Each person must make the choice to be happy in life, you must find that which gives you satisfaction and follow it. Each person will follow a different path and each person will find the path in a different way. Even if I knew my path and how I found it, I could tell you but it would do you no good, as yours is different. Right now I don't know if I'm saying the right lines or saying them correctly, but it feels like it's the right thing now. I don't have any devine insight that I know of, no voice booming out of a cloud, Just a lifetime of trying to understand. I spend a lot of time with my 2 1/2 year old grandson and I can't think of anything better to do. In that way I am "Following my Bliss".
Social Masks.
Some of your references sound like my comments 'Mask' and 'Mask 2' on Sept 17 '06. You may find the play 'Equus' by Peter Shaffer interesting in the prospect of a forcably applied 'Social Mask'. You are correct that following what is expected of you can lead to resentment later in life. It would be hoped that each generation will learn form the mistakes of the past but it seems that many perpetuate those mistakes, "If it was good enough for me it's good enough for my kids", I, with the help of my wife, have made an effort to give our children the oppertunities and encouragement that I did not have. It was a small thing really but it was noticed by at least one, and I hope that she will apply it to her own children and not repete my mistakes.
Cosmology.
One of the current questions of cosmology, is will the universe continue to expand to oblivion, or will it eventually slow down and collapse into the "Big Crunch". The answer depends on how much matter is in the universe, and scientists can't identify all of it. There is a lot that we just can't see. My understanding of cosmology is that the universe is expanding due to space itself getting larger. Stars and galixies are not moving out into empty space but space itself is getting larger and carring them along. The universe is unbounded in that there is no edge, however it is finite in size, there are limits to it's size but there is no edge. This is due to the gravitational curvature of space. Infinity is a mathametical or hypothetical concept and does not exist in reality. There is the universe that is finite in size and nothing else. The old question that when you get to the edge of the universe there must be something on the other side is incorrect, there is no edge and nothing beyond the non-existant edge. This may be difficult for some to accept but that is the way it is. In regards to time see my answer "Plato's Cave" July 3 '08. The flow of time is an ilusion due to the progression of events. We exist in the currant instant and all else is in the past and gone. And as the future has not happened yet, it only exists in our imagination.
Do you punish a group?
"Where will it end?" just may be the question for this age. Much of the conflict in the world today originated many generations ago. The original event occured out of ignorance or greed and with the subsequent exchange of violence for violence everyone has a personal justification for bigotry and hatred. One of the obstacles is that many will stereotype everyone of the other side and are unable to understand that not all are responsable. As long as a large portion of the population view another group with universal derogatory characteristics there will be conflict. When the majority of individuals can meet another person without preconcieved ideas of that persons character, based on color, country their ancesters came from, or their position in society, we may begin on the path to the end of this stage of civilization, and find a better way to live with each other. Punish those who are directly responsable for the offense but do not blame everyone else.
Colonial Conquest - ' Fait Accompli '
I believe that if you look closely you will find that these territories still "In tribal Hands" are considered to be parts of larger Sovereign Nations, Brazil, Australia. I don't think that these countries are dealing with these groups as independent nations, but are benevolently allowing them to exist with only minimal supervision and interferience, "The White Mans Burden". Brazil is currently allowing people into the amazon basin to clear and farm the land, do you think the natives have not been impacted by the loss of habitat. I'm sure that the Brazilian government views them more as wildlife than an independent nation. These lands have already been stolen by those who claim it as part of their juristicton.
Meanings.
One of the difficulties with a site like this is that the terms and words must have a common accepted meaning to avoid confusion and misunderstanding. For consistancy I would recomend a standard reference for definitions such as one of the Websters dictionarys. Galiberal has added nuances that are not part of the standard definitions. Belief does not require objective evidence or personal experience, and faith does not include maintainence in the face of contrary evidence. These may be personal usages but are not universal to all. If Galiberal had not stated this so clearly I may have taken a different meaning to his comment.
Apology and Explination.
I must apologize for not being as clear in my post as I should have been. I was not refering to those who have indured hardships and spiritually risen above their oppressors. I was not aware of the reference to African Americans, and had never known of the association with segregation. To those who may have been offended I am sorry. My knowledge of this phrase is from various Macho Adolescents (in emotional maturity) who would strut around with their chest out bragging about their exploits and the dangers they have survived, in this context the statement is very immature. In reference to the people you mention I would not expect them to use the phrase in a boastful manner.
Is Sanity Insane?
Yes the Infinite exists in the mathmatical, intelectual and spiritual sense, God is the infinite. Infinity does not exist in the corporeal sense, the physical and human experience are limited and finite. Sanity is relative, which of use is more or less sane, "Of all, Only Thee and Me are sane, but I have my doubts of Thee".
Mental black Hole ?
The mind is a result of the neural activity of the brain and is not mass, but has a resemblance to a black Hole in that all of our life experience (memories) go into it but some never come out. However the selection of memories that are drawn in and lost to our awareness seemed to be random rather than selective. I would prefer to keep all the good and lose all the bad but that is not the case. I would like to know how to reconcile all the unpleasant events that seem to haunt me but I am hoping that by not expressing them they will go away. The black Hole of forgetfulness is very unforgiving that way.
Sincerely.
First of all who are you to say that I am on the side of the papers over the inhabitants. I may play the 'Devil's Advocate' for this forum but do not label me as Satan. It seems that your passion for your cause is casting everyone else as the enemy, and this attitude and these accusations will not gain you much support. I agree that the inhabitants should be considered as the owners of the land, but there is a danger in declairing them as an independent nation and removing the protection of a benevolent government, and the fact that these people and areas still exist shows this benevolent nature. There are several much more voracious and brutal governments that would be quick to invade and claim these territories as colonies. Look at Japan prior to and during WWII or China in Tibet. before you criticize a government that is letting these people exist by looking like ghosts with abstract ownership, think what would happen to native tribes in areas that are not given some protection. And do you really want lawyers and men in suits living among these natives, monitoring their lifestyle, diet, and standard of living to be sure that they come up to some government standard. I believe that the Native Americans and Hawaiians were prety much devastated when the US tried to westernize them. You said that you wanted to use this forum to refine your ideas, then loose the hostility or you may loose the few friends that you have here.
Past Friends.
I do not burn bridges but I do tend to let them fade away. That seems to be the case with the friend I was refering to. In the last few years our contact has been limited to twice a year and then only brefely, and this is in association with another friend (who lives some distance away) that we share a twice yearly event. So it is possable that this friendship will revert to 'someone I once knew'.
Incompatibality.
Yes all concepts should be considered for the potential to answer questions, but when disciplines approach a question from opposite sides and refuse to acknowledge the validity of the other view there can be no colaboration. Much like the Terrorists and America there is no middle ground for acceptance.
Fashion ?
I had always assumed that flat shoes would be more comfortable than high-heels, I do not wear High-Heels myself so I do not know. BTW i do not wear neckties except in extreme circumstances.
Natural Philosopher.
Yes but in his time a 'Natural Philosopher' is what we now call a scientist. A Philosopher is one who loves knowledge, and Natural indicates the study of the physical world as opposed to more spiritual or ethereal matters. Also in that time many scientific works were published as Philosophy as it related to the advancement of Knowledge.
Somewhat Sarcastic.
I believe that the Native American warfare was less bloody than was typical in Europe at least untill the Europeans colonized America. The French introduced the practice of 'Scalping' - chopping off the top of a persons head to keep a talley of how many enemy you have killed, Very thoughtful of those 'Civilized' and snooty Frogs. Much of this early warfare was symbolic, as some indonesian tribes who stage a battle to settle a dispute and posture and threaten till someone is injured, then they declare a winner and everyone goes home. Nothing like the bloody european wars of recient and past history. Perhaps we should be grateful to the europeans for practices that reduce the surplus population.
Learning/grades.
In the current educational system the grade and test score are the objectives, a more subjective assessmant of knowledge is unaceptable as it cannot be quantified and recorded. At some time in the past a student learned the material and was credited with passing the course based on knowledge acquired. Now everyone wants to put a numerical value on a students preformance, students will study, cram, and cheat to get a good grade and make no effort to retain the knowledge afterward. I am reminded of a student in a martial arts class who had learned and passed the first Kata and was prepairing to test for the second. I asked him to do the first, and he looked at me surprised and asked 'Why?' I explained that in Katate you are expected to learn and continue to practice all that you know, unlike public schools where once passed a course can often be forgotten and as you say 'how will this "education" serve him?'. True education is more about learning than grades, but the public school system is more about grades than learning. I believe that I have learned much more since I graduated because I was seeking knowledge and not a grade.
Correct.
This is true, both Philosophy and Technology have a wide range of disciplines, and Posts should specify which aspect is intended. I apologize for my initial hasty response as I was refering specificly to Western Traditions based on the ancient Greek, and The Scientific Method. It would be helpful if contributors would be as specific as possible when refering to Philosophy and Technology.
Dragons.
This brings me to another idea about the beasts that populate the stories of antiquity. Most cultures have a reference to Dragons, if fossils of Dinosaurs were found how better to explain than to tell stories of ancient Dragons. There were certainly bones being eroded out of the ground for millions of years and the ancient people would not have had a clear understanding of the age of the remains, and may have imagined that their ancestors had met and killed the beasts. I am not sure about the Greeks knowledge of Elephants as Alexander had incountered them in his conquest of India, and they would have been known to the Africans who were not that far away. There was a lot more commerce and travel through-out the ancient world than most people realize.
There is occasional misunderstanding.
A few points of clarification, you have on several occasiions equated statements that I have made with approval of Governments or Corporations whose actions you disagree with. I may state a fact or describe a situation but that does not denote that I am taking their side. I try not to say that something is Good or Bad or state my Approval or Disaproval, though I am not always sucessful. For this discussion 'Benevolent Government' is a relitave term, as there have been many (Britain in South Africa for one) who have been less than Benevolent. The unfortunate truth is that there are Governments that hold 'Manifest Destiny', Eminent Domain, and other justifications for conquest as their right and duty to Civilize the world. Another harsh reality is that this world is at War. There are Countries and groups whose stated aim is to destroy another group, country or even everyone else who does not accept thier Ideology. I would like to see all those who would do violence to others eliminated but I am sure that someone would object to that. Fanaticism in all it's forms has brought us to this point and more will not help. I am not ready to scrap technology or civilization, and I believe that there must be a way to fix things within the system, including accepting that others choose to live in a way that some see as primitive. Too often it is the do-gooders who try to help that mess things up. In the future let us read what is written without Inferring what is not there, If in doubt, ask.
re. Sustainable Cycle.
I had posted the Answer 'Sustainability' Sept. 11 '06 to question #55 of the 100 presented to the Sept. 9 '06 round table.
htm-what?
I believe that I heard or read somewhere that identifying the problem was 'half the battle'. Well come'on I've done half of the work already and I'm only one person. Do'ya think some-one else could help a little. ----- Actually how to acheve population control, stabilization or reduction, is well known. There has been information and techniques avaliable for many years. The problem is to get people to use that knowledge. There I've done another half of the work! ----- This would involve getting the media, politicians, and all the major religions to help spread the message. unfortunatly there are many in all these areas who think that population growth is a good thing, especially the Catholic Church. There are also places in the world where it is not practical to suggest birth control. This is for you Zotlynn if it works - http://www.droppingknowledge.org/bin/posts/focus/29754.page Just in case, my Comment 'Incredible' Dec 16 '06. I believe you give me more credit for computer savy than you should, I have never had any kind of training. There are also much information on creating sustainable communities and the problem remains getting people to impliment these practices, and the solution would be the same, to get those above mentioned orginizations to help educate people on both the problem and the solution.
Government Interference.
There is another factor in our food supply, at least in the US. and that is price controls. One example is a Government agency the 'Milk Marketing Board' that sets the retail price of milk and then the government subsidizes the Dairy industry so they can stay in business, there-by insuring a plentiful supply and low prices. If the government were not in the food business the prices would stabalize at a higher levels but our taxes would be lower since it is tax dollars that pay the subsidies and maintain the bureaucracy. I think we would be better off without Government interference. Higher prices may have the same effect as limited supply. I read somewhere that of all the human beings that have ever lived on the Earth 25% are alive today. Your last point was good, if we overpopulate long enough the problem will go away. - - - - - FYI to ilustrate the power of the dairy industry, when oleomargarine was first introduced, as a butter substitute, it was not allowed to be sold with the color mixed in. It came white with a small packet of color to be mixed in after purchase. I can remember my parents talking about mixing it in so it would look like butter.
Bruises.
Many of those who have stopped posting have suffered a bruised ego when their contributions have not been fawned over and praised, but have been met with disagreement and counter arguments. It takes some strength of character to receive criticism, reconsider the relavant entries and either revise your opinion, clarify your original statement, or sometimes just 'walk away' when you have nothing further to add. Those who are easily offended, or whose ego's are easily bruised, will have a difficult time on any public forum, this one is no exception. What is needed here is honest insight not self infatuation. Thankfully it seems that those who have been crude, abusive, or arrogant have found other forums and left this one to a more civil dialogue. I believe that my own patience is evident as I was originally registered in Aug. '06. It is easy to estimate how many are actively contributing to this site, but it would be encouraging to know that many more are reading the entries and benefiting from the occasional insight.
Actually you Do.
Christianity tells us to 'Love our Enemies' and if they ask for our car we should give it to them. Luke 6, 27 - 30 And probably, 'under your breath', thank them for taking that old clunker off your hands.
Civil dialogue
There are a few who have been registered since the Sept 9 '06 round table, and while I said that many have left due to a bruised ego, I believe many more have come and gone because of the pace of this forum. Some log-on expecting replys to come like a 'Chat Room' where participants answer within minutes or seconds. Here it may be days to get a response. These are the ones who only post for a day or two, while others who post for a month or more may loose interest in the slow pace or the current active threads of this site. It is possible that some log-on, ask a question, receive an answer, and leave satisfied, we may never know. Most contributions are presented with goodwill but the ocasional mean-spirited entry will often be met with a 'reply in kind' and the user will take offence. I admit to the occasional unkind or hostile post but reasonable people should be able to work past that and continue in a more civil manner. Those whose ego is bigger than their intellect will not be able to get beyond the perceived insult. Yes all suffer from ignorance to some degree, no-one knows everything about all subjects, and some think they know a lot when they really know very little. Some simply refuse to see the truth. I supose that part of my problem is that I have seen too many entries that have been poorly thought out, irrational, or illogical, and loose patience when a little thought would lead one to a reasonable conclusion. Many times during a face to face conversation I will be tryig to explain something and will be cut off with an incorrect assumption as to what I was going to say. It gets very frustrating to stop and correct this, it seems to be a game to some people to get to the point first without listening carefully to what is being said. This also seems to be a problem here where an entry is not read carefully or completely and a reply is posted that is off topic or misintreprets what was said. Patience is a valuable asset and haste leads to misunderstanding. Sometimes I think I have been here too long but curiosity keeps bringing me back.
Cool !
Something else I just thought of, when the sun goes down the air gets cooler and cool air is more dense than warm air. Cool dense air carries sound better than warm less dense air so sounds will be louder.
Knowing by not Knowing.
'Zen bones, Zen flesh' Paul reps ? From my own readings I find that I know Zen but I don't know that I know it. Perhaps someday, but till then I will be content in this. I would also recomend 'Zen in the Martial arts' by Joe Hyams it has some good advice on living. D. T. Suzuki is also very good. - - - - - The wild geese do not intend to cast their reflection; The water has no mind to receive their image.
I'm not leaving yet.
I agree with the statement at the top of the page, to provide questions and answers for the benefit af all. This Forum has the potential for great value, I only question the level of participation. I am sometimes frustrated with the occasional offensive, mean-spirited or innacurate post, as not being appropriate for this site. My continued participation is in anticipation of an interesting post or the continuation of an existing dialogue.
Objective Time ?
Much of what poeple know or believe about time is due to the language used to refer to time. For this discussion I will dwell in the realm of Philosophical objectivism and not subjectivism (solipsism). The reference is often to the passage of time as it "Flows past us". Science referes to time as the 4th dimension 'Duration' which implys that like the other three we can move along the dimension of time. There is much fictional speculation about adventurers traveling to distant places and times, and I do enjoy 'Dr. Who' and his TARDIS, but it is fiction. Poets write of traveling along the road of life as if all the events of our past & future are there, where we have been, and will be. As I said we exist in the current instant along with the rest of the universe and will exist in the next along with everything else. The progression of events is just that one instant after another, we are here now, we remember events that seem to streach out in our past, and anticipate events that may happen in the future, but our only reality is the present. All speculation about time travel is nonsense, the future has not happened and the past is gone, there is no-when to go to. I do not say we should forget the past as events may repete. I do not say that we should not plan for the future as we can make better choices based on our memories of the past. The flow of time is an illusion as there is nothing that is flowing past that exists before or after the present. With our clocks and calanders we can record and corrolate events that have happened, but clocks and calanders do not control that one moment follows another and will continue whether we notice or not. That time seems to pass slowly or quickly is a psychological illusion dependent on our attention to the sequence of events. The clock ticks off regularly and steadily regardless of our awareness, and each tick is a reality in itself and the only one that existed then. We continue to exist now in this instant and the next, and the next minuet, hour, day, year, but time is a concept that has no reality, It is only an illusion created by our clocks and calanders with their records of events. Time is the name we have given to the sequence of existance, but must not be construed as something that flows or passes but is only the record of the moments of our existence.
With a limited vocabulary, - language.
I believe that our mental activity occurs in several different ways. Often we have feelings,- fear, affection, hunger,- which are felt and experienced before any words or language is attatched to them. likewise there are images of places we have been, people we have known, or an image of our plans for the future, which we may visualize before linking them to a word. Other times thoughts are in the form of words, as in composing an entry for this forum. Learning a new language is, at first, simple substitution, as evedenced by the often humorous utterances of someone new to a language. only when the grammer and structure is assimilated can the individual experience the thought process of the other culture. Realizing the differences in structure, which is indicative of the thought patterns involved with each language, - the direction of reading, left, right, up, down, - one realizes why communication between cultures has been so difficult and war so common. Indeed if telepathic comunication is possible the exchange would be more of images and feelings than words except when some abstract idea is involved. On this forum we are severly limited to words, and they must be chosen carefuly.
Cosmological Eschatology ?
The two possibilities, each offer distinct qualities for contemplation. Isn't "Heat Death" an inappropriate label as it is my understanding that everything disperses to a cold vacuous dusting of particles that approach absolute Zero and than disapear, or does it mean the 'Death of Heat' ? This posability has a philosophical sadness to it, as it does not seem to allow for continuation or rebirth, but is the end of everything. However some with excessive ego may take pleasure in the thought that we are the only ones. The big crunch on the other hand would allow for endless speculation that the universe is cyclic, and to me this is philosophically more pleasing. Granted few of us will live long enough to witness the end, unless there is an afterlife in eternity where we can experience the whole of creation. As far as my opinion I am holding my options open, there is not enough observable matter to reverse the expansion, and science does not know haw much matter we cannot observe. So rendering an opinion would be futile. The 'Big Crunch' is philisophicaly more satisfying, but 'Heat Death' may be more aesthetically pleasing. One final comment, your vocabulary is putting additional strain on my Dictionary, Thankyou.
Awareness of Language.
It is inconcevable to me to think that an unborn child does not hear it's mothers voice, and possably the voices of others nearby. Also the radio, TV, and other sounds of the environment. I do not know if the child is in a state of awareness or sleep, but even in sleep we hear sounds and the mind trys to intrepret them. Kicking is no indication of wakefulness as many people move, talk, even walk in their sleep. I would suspect that language is begining to form before birth, and the newborn's limits are physical co-ordination and developement.
All of us.
As strongheart says we do not live in a Democracy, nor do we have laws that are equitably applied, this is not news, nor is it a surprise to many of us. The only real democracy exists in small groups much like the ancient Greek City States where all the members could gather and make decisions by majority. In the begining of the United States there were thousands of people, hundreds of miles apart and no way to communicate quickly, so a modified form of Democracy was adopted with all it's attendant problems. Laws are often vague or subject to interpretation and with our adversarial judicial system, are not enforced evenly. If laws were written just to protect one citizen or entity against injury by another things could be clear and simple. Laws that are passed to protect an individual from themself becomes an unjustified limit on our freedom. When laws are passed to aid some finacially everyone else pays whether they want ot or not. The cause of these problems at the most fundamental level seems quite clear, overpopulation, but as I am aware of very few individuals volunteering to reduce the population, we may need to seek other solutions, besides those who would volunteer are probably not the ones we would want to get rid of. With higher population there is more friction between people, more disagreement, more need to regulate conduct, more for some to take advantage of, more for others to profit from, And for some, more wrongs to redress, causes to rally for, evil corporations and governments to protest and demonstrate against. All this can be linked, at the basic level, to overpopulation. How many are rallying and demonstrating against this root cause of mankinds problems? Most are skirting around the edges of the issue picking small bits that will not really help, but will feel good, even though nothing is accomplished. Higher population means higher consumption, faster depletion of resources, more pollution, and increased extinction due to loss of wild habitat. There are Governments who have advocated higher population via. larger families in order to overwhelm the rest of the world with greater numbers. the Roman Catholic Church has promoted overpopulation by prohibiting birth control and family planing, how many are protesting that? This church violates it's own principles, it recently published an additional 7 deadly sins, among them was the sin of 'Becoming Obscenely Wealthy', yet the Vatican is one of the richest institutions in the world, so much for practicing what you preach. Why are so many afraid to speak against the Pope, he is just another failable human being, and a chauvinist as well. As they say power corrupts and this is just another example of extreme corruption. Perhaps we need to invent a 'Mutant Star Goat' to devour the earth, so we can ship the useless third of our population off to colonize another planet, but again I'm not seeing many volunteers. As for me, I'm going to stick around and watch my grandson grow up. This world may not be the best it can be, but it is the only one we have, and tearing it down does not help to build it up to be better.
Not Me.
I do not intentionally belittle anyone, but there are some who belittle themselves with their entries on this site, and I may at times point that out to others. Also my question was to goad strongheart to elaborate further on his point.
lesser Evil.
Yes I understand that there is fraud, cheating, and bigotry, in the system and that some are disinfranchised by party politics, but I also know that if we quit trying and just give up 'They' Win. We all do what we can, with what we have, where we are. You tell us how to restore honesty and intregrety to US politics and I'll vote for it, but till then we are stuck with what we 've got, and I think it's better than Russian or Chinese style Communism, or a Hussain dictatorship.
Hurrah for Differences !
It seems that we have diferent ways of doing things, and I believe that there have been many on this forum saying that we should celebrate our differences, not ask for conformity. I also notice that you do not always respond to a reply to your posts? I will respond when I have something to say.
nice comment.
So which of the sentences in your post do you consider the most meaningful ?
Hobbies and Special Interests.
I agree that this illustrates a fundamental deficiency in American culture, in the majority of North America English is the dominate language and we can travel almost anywhere without knowing another. Europeans have an advantage in this respect that in travel one must learn several languages to get around easily. This tendency for one language is because a second or third is unnecessary. This also illustrates a basic characteristic of human nature, call it economy of effort, conservation of energy if you like but I would say it's just being lazy. People will usualy do only what is necessary to get by, there have been other posts on this site to illustrate this and the threads on cheating show that many will do less than the minimum. I am reminded of an individuel who boasted that the only French test he ever passed was by waiting till other students had taken their papers to the teachers desk and while the teacher was correcting them with a group of students looking on he went up behind and looking over everyones sholders, filled in the answers. I have worked in several manufacturing plants where each job had an expected output in parts per hour, and it was understood that you did not do very much more, so that you did not make the other workers look bad or raise the rate for others. Learning another language takes a lot of effort especially for adults, just like memorizing something that you do not need to, most will not do it. Those who do more than is required are the exception, not the rule. These ideas apply primarily to employment, in the area of personal interest people will often go to excess in persuit of a hobby or a cause. Perhaps the answer is to somehow make the language or heritage a hobby or a cause that will spark an interest outside of education.
Connect with nature for real.
I really do not have an interest in the Psilocybin Mushroom question but I would suggest that if you want to 'reconnect with nature' and 'realize the beauty around you' get out of the city and visit a truly wild area. I don't know what you connected with while using the mushroom but I doubt that it was nature. I live in nature, I live on just over 2 acres of trees and whatever lives and grows there plus a house and I don't need any help to appreciate the beauty around me. I do not have any grass (on purpose) or a lawn mower. If you really want to experience the beauty of nature climb up on a forested mountain and watch a sunrise or sunset and listen to nature talking to you.
Translation.
Try this you just need to copy and paste to get the translation and I think it is close enough. http://babelfish.yahoo.com/
Linguistics
If someone who speaks two languages is Bi-lingual. And someone who speaks more than two languages is multi-lingual. What do you call someone who speaks only one language ?
Fight or Flight ?
"We could excuse ourselves from the party," or 'stop the world I want to get off,' but where will you go, and how will you get there. It also seems a bit defeatist not to fight for the rights of others.
Faux Education
It is unfortunate that this also seems to be the case in subjects other than History. The longer a subject has been part of the public school curriculum the farther it has deviated from whatever profession it had been derived from. In what is now called Tech. Ed. the skills of Drafting, metalworking, and others are far removed from industrial practice, and in some cases diametrically opposed to it. This is a case of educators who 'Know Better' how it should be done and introduce arbitrary practices into the subjects. I have taught shop in the public school, and worked in industry, and leaving education was the start of my real education.
Pick-up Trucks.
He also likes riding in my truck, and one time when his dad brought him out, saying that they were going for a ride in my truck, he got out of the car and ran straight for the truck, with a big smile. So I may be third after trains and my truck?
Limited choices.
"When people who are less than perfect run for office - these are our choices." - You are correct that often our choices are the lesser of two evils, and many times a vote is not as much 'for' one person but 'against' the other. One of the factors in the nomination is not 'are they qualified?' but 'can they be elected?' You are correct that many talented people will not put themselves out there. Look at the photos of the last few presidents, they have visably aged much more than their years in office, few are willing to give themselves up for that. There is another factor that can hamstring someone in an elected office and that is the entrenched bureaucracy. This is the rigid structure of 'How it's done here', and it's main function is not to serve the public interest, but to preserve itself. I think if it were rolled over and restaffed periodically we would be better off. Where I grew up we got a lot of snow in the winter and the snow plow crews were very important, but everytime the political power changed parties the crews would be replaced with new personel, and we had a few years of 'not such good plowing' till the new crews learned their jobs. If our federal bureaucracy were rolled over it would be more flexable to change, new procedures, and improvement. As for me, you do not want me in a position of power, I am sure that I would abuse it very badly.
Send in the Clouds.
Hello April, yes this site is quiet at times, and many looking for answers find only dialogue, but even among the few who continue to post here there is little agreement. It is possible that there are answers and solutions here but are lost in "The Black Hole of this Site", but if there is an issue that you are interested in some searching may turn up an answer, there are a lot of words on this site. I sometimes find it hard to believe that I have over 600 posts myself, could have done with a lot less. I've seen many questions re-posted over the last 2 years as if many come on to the site and ask without researching the issue. Perhaps they think they are the first to ask that question. One of the problems is people posting without looking at what is already here. If you look many will register and post on the same day and not be heard from again, I believe that they expect a response within minuets and do not come back when it takes days. I have learned to be patient with this forum and everytime I get on-line I check to see if there is anything new and make a note of anything I wish to respond to, and when I am ready I post. Many times there is no response, but I continue to wait. - - - I noted your interest in clouds and I will tell you of one unusual formation I saw. Imagine the celling of a room painted sky blue and while the paint is wet large cotton balls are stuck to the paint. after the paint is set the bottom of the cotton is pulled down leaving strands hanging down from the ball. This is exactily the formation I observed over a large part of the sky one day while driving to work. One thing about clouds is that they exist in air masses in the atmosphere like a layer cake. Clouds may be in one layer but not another and may appear flat on the bottom or top. When you see clouds like this imagine a clear sheet with one air mass above another and the clouds riding on the boundry. Many times clouds will define a surface or a vertical front of different air masses.
The real Problem.
Hello Heather, perhaps the comments on plants were a bit extreme but we really do not know how much plants are aware of, or how or if they feel anything. Plants turn to face the sun, and there are some studys that indicate that they are aware of surroundings. Most fruits and vegetables are living tissue till they are eaten or cooked, many will produce another plant if properly prepaired. Potatos and onions will start to sprout if not used soon enough. There is no reason for animals raised for meat to suffer unnecessarily when killed. The issue that you refer to is a symptom of a sick society which produces individuals that seek to inflict needless pain and suffering on helpless creatures. It is not characteristic of the industry that produces meat for food, but of a society that harbors and nurtures sadistic and sick individuals. The meat packing industry is not the problem, society is the problem, heal and cure that and we will have profesionals that inflict the least amount of pain and suffering. Seek out and help those individuals who treat animals as if they are their personal whipping boy's. Eating meat is not the problem, the problem is a sick society that accepts such cruelty.
Humility - Arrogance.
Hello April, your comment about patience and humility has given me something to think about, and it brought to mind another reason that some users come and go so quickly. I believe that some register on this site, not to seek knowledge and answers, but to 'Show Off' by expounding their own ideas. Often they do not review the site for other entries on the same subject but expect that their own ideas are so wonderful and original that no-one else could possibly have posted them before. These individuals would appear condescending and arrogant toward others, and if met with disagreement or counter arguments would take offence that some lesser person would question their brillance, and at some point stop contributing. I know that I have alluded to this before but not with the idea that someone would not be looking for ideas and information from others. This site is for users to browse and receive knowledge and ideas that may help to answer questions. For some to come solely to dazzle us lesser mortals with their intellect is not in keeping with the spirit of this forum. There have been several users that fit this description and some have just stopped and others have announced that they are leaving for some rather lame excuse. Perhaps this is one more piece to the puzzle of this forum
Missed the Point.
This comment is an unfortunate example of one of the problems with this site, April was asking for ways to retrieve questions on this site 'Dropping Knowledge' not the internet in general. 'Ebachan' has failed to carefully read the question and has missed the point. While the comment may be useful it does not answer the question. Those who attempt to post an answer must carefully read the question so as to post a relavant answer. It would also be benificial if new users would review what has already been posted. Ebachan has posted a question about religion and there have been numerous entries on just that topic. I would hope that Ebachan will take some time to review previous entries for an answer. This forum is not a 'Chat Room' and replies may take some time, it would be hoped that users will return in a reasonable time to check for responses.
History of War
One thing that must be kept in mind is that in the history of War and armed conflict the winners get to write the history and the loosers often do not get to tell their side. Sometimes they destroy the records to deprive the winners of that information, other times it is simply destroyed in the process of the conflict. In WWII Gen MacArthur, US comander in the South Pacific, would regulary over estimate enemy losses and under report his own losses. This was misrepresentation to his own superior's and the American people. Even the winners account cannot always be trusted. It has been said that 'Truth is the first casualty of war'.
Words of Jesus ?
Are you sure that the words of Jesus Christ are any better understood today than they were 2000 years ago. There are many who do not understand, at least they don't act as if they do.
Neolithic Revolution.
The 'Neolithic Revolution' was one of ideas and technique, a gradual change from Nomadic hunter-gatherers to sedentary farmers and herders. The previously nomadic people domesticated plants and animals to provide a more stabel food supply, allowing them to settle in one area. There was no more warefare and conflict than in previous times and no genocide, because they were not different people with one group wiping out another but all the same people transitioning from nomadic to sedentary life styles. There was an increase in disease due to larger populations of humans and animals living in close proximity and less conflict from different groups moving into the same area. There is a similar situation today when children who grow up on a farm move to the city for 'Better' oppertunities. The Neolithic revolution was peaceful and occured over a long period of time in many areas. It was however the start of humans attempting to control and dominate the environment and eventually would have a negative effect.
Public Education ?
Hello Eyes, I will agree that this should not be the function of the school system, but there are many parents and some adminstrators who believe that this is the case. Few teachers feel this way but given the general shortcomings of curiculum this seems to be the practical function of the schools.
Original Teachings ?
Yes, as I have stated in other posts, many Churches have badly distorted the teachings especially the Roman Catholic Church, and in Islam the Extreme fundamentalists have done the same to their teachings. However there are some churches that profess ideologys that are close to Christ's original teaching. It may be that I am more familiar with these because they are in line with my own beliefs. I do not agree with the old 'Fire and Brimstone' teaching that stressed strict obedience or Hell. I am especially offended by some of the 'Health and Wealth' Preachers. There is one currently on TV that calls for 'Planting the Seed'. If a person is in financial need they are to send $500.00 to the ministry and God will provide for the monitary need. Of course they are always reading testimonials of those who have recieved help, real or fictional ? But I wonder for each who may have received help, by coincidence, how 100's are just out the $500.00 Sounds like a scam to me. I have also heard receintly that in some places the Roman Catholics are selling indulgences ?
Wow ! ! !
Hello April, (even though he's a know-it-all) Thankyou, I think ? I certainly do not claim to, know-it-all, there are some subjects about which I do not comment and on others I am well read and offer what I am reasonably sure of. Keep questioning and think for yourselfe, If it doesn't sound right it probably isn't, (even though all my posts are perfictly sound ? ? T.I.C.) Robots are machines controled by people.
Consider Japanese treatement of Chinese WWII.
No I do not suggest that every citizen is a legitament target, but that they should bear the responsability for the actions of their armed forces. However I would suggest that in all of history there are cases of savage brutality directed against 'Non-combattants'. The earliest accounts have some of the worst actions of conquering armies treatment of civilian populations. How many times have the victors killed the men and taken the women and children into slavery? In every war that I have studied there are reports on all sides of barbaric cruelity, but there are also numerous accounts of chivalry and compassion towards the 'enemy'. No nation or group cn claim to be free of inapropriate actions, and many have commited unconceivable atrocities in the conduct of war and some within and without of their own bouders in times of peace. Quoting examples and pointing the finger at one side does no good as there are just as many examples for the other side.
Fresh Start.
Thankyou, The rebuilding project has several benefits, one is that for insurance we must to try to itemize everything that we had to establish a value. I had been an avid 'off air video taper' and had aproximately 800 VHS tapes of anything that seemed interesting. Now I am being somewhat selective in what I acquire as a replacement. Being as busy as we are I do not think we would ever have watched all those tapes. This process is also being applied to other aspects of our posessions and we are replacing items that we would really use, and not just because we had them. Of course as you say things are not nearly so important as the people in our lives. In the days after the fire I would put my arms arround my wife and comment that it was comforting to still have something familiar to hold on to. I also said that now we did not have 'a closet half full of clothes that we would never wear'. That is till my nephew made a lier out of me by bringing arm fulls of shirts for me to look at and try on, half of which I will probably never wear ! !
Mr. Right ?
Hello April, this one got me thinking, and I believe that most people are searching for a soulmate, some are searching for the 'perfect partner'. I feel sorry for the latter, for I do not believe that the 'perfect person' exists for anyone, and finding that 'one person' out of the billions on this planet is imposable, without devine help? I met my current wife (I was married before) and recognized a good person, and we made a deliberate, concious decision for the relationship. Once you stop thinking that 'If this doesn't work I can find another' you start making decisions that keep the relationship moving forward. No, we are not perfect people, not for each other or anyone else, but we accept each other 'Warts and all', sometimes especially the warts. There is an incredible amount of Love between us, but also respect. Sometimes I do not understand why she Loves me but I gratefully accept it. A good relationship for us is not grounded on Passion, but mutual respect, and acceptance of the other, in a relationship where failure is not an option.
P. S.
The perfect relationship is not based on finding the 'perfect person', but on finding someone who you can accept perfectly, with all their imperfections.
This is extremism, and wrong !
I must disagree with this. The idea of 'one or the other', ' this or that', is unrealistic and unacceptable. People are different, with a variety of beliefs and desires, and to try to make evereyone be the same and act the same as some arbitrary standard will never work. Much of the conflict, and the problems in the world today are a result of those who demand "my way or the highway" or more acurately "My way or Death". How many extremists want everyone to adopt their ideology or be destroyed. forcing everyone to adopt the same ideology and beliefs is like giving everyone identical genes. The Human race would not last long without genetic diversity, and it is the same with beliefs. Diversity gives us progress, growth, and invertion. Without diversity the race would stagnate and die out. "THE END ! " There are many species that are at risk of extinction due to lack of genetic diversity. It is said thatr 'variety is the spice of life' but not just the spice but esential to growth and survival. Without diversity of genes, ideas, and beliefs, the Human race, as any other species, would be doomed to extinction. This is basic science, reality. "If it's not all right, It's all wrong", is nonsense, and dangerous as well.
Not so Fast !
The idea of a common language and common understanding may sound good on the surface, but the truth is that not all people hold common values and beliefs, and if mankind were starting over these differences could lead to conflict if easily understood. Where groups have opposing ideas and goals, dificulty in communicatiing may be a benefit. If you aren't sure what the other person is saying, you aren't sure weather you agree or not, and may not be as ready to start a fight over it.
Clarificaton.
I do not use evolution and creation interchangeably, people and all life were created, and evolution is the means by which all life was created. Creation is the act, and evolution is the mechanism by which it was done.
Confusion.
This is true, different ethnic groups can associate different meanings to a particular gesture. many times I have seen a gesture by someone of a different ethnic background, and have simply been puzzeled, not knowing what was ment.
Limits to God?
Unlike many I do not attempt to put God in a box and say that this is all he can do or all that he can be. I do not know the limits, If any, of God's power or ability. You speak of a God who set the universe in motion and then intervened, corrected and adjusted as it progressed. How much more miraculous would it be that God set things in motion, knowing all the twists and turns, anticipating how everything would end up. Fore-knowledge is not control, it means that God knows what decisions people will make based on the information they have. Humans have free will, and that God knows in advance what you will decide, does not mean that you do not have a choice. Bad things happen, people die, some appear to fall, but who knows what will happen in the long run or what awaits after death? Who on Earth can fathom the mind of God? Surely God could alter the course of events and make it look natural, or make a natural event look like a miracle. Most people have difficulity accepting that anyone or anything can be more intelligent, or capable than themselves, and so they define everyone and everything, including God, within their own limits. I once read a story where a person wished to be the best singer in the world, he got his wish, but not by being better than everyone else, but now everyone else's voice was worse than his. What a loss to humanity if I had gotten such a wish, all the beautiful voices that I enjoy would be gone. I really pitty those who cannot accept that anyone else is better or smarteer than they are.
Perfection?
God could certianly intervene if he chose to, or events could have been set in motion in the begining that would lead people to end up together. Are we perfectly imperfect, or imperfectly perfect? Can you accept a God that could start things, in the begining, and watch, smiling, as everything goes as he had planed.
K.I.S.S.
This seems to be a very Baroque and condescending way of saying - 'Live in peace, harmony, and tolerance with your fellow Human beings.
Absence etc.
Hello Keymoney, I hope your hiatus Sept. '06 to Dec. '08 was merely lack of participation and not some personal dificulty that kept you from this site.
Briefly Speaking ?
Thankyou, although sometimes it becomes too tiresome to wade through the excess rhetoric to discover the kernel of meaning buried in the wealth of discourse. My personal predilection is to be brief, concise, and to the point, avoiding the frivolous use of ponderous monologue to eloquently convey a simple point. Therefore my posts are, at times, considerably less voluminous than other contributors to this site, and at times other weighty matters infringe on my schedule, preventing me from devoting the necessary attention to ascertain the true message contained in the sometimes lenghly dissertation.
Simple Evolution.
My concern is that to few understand that evolution is driven by the environment and not by what we wish for. If the environment favors benevolence and charity, that is where the human race will go, but if it favors violence and greed, that will be it's course. Intellectualizing about what we would like it to be, will do no good, but those who produce the most offspring will prevail. The ghetto whore who copulates (notice I did not say 'Go to bed' as that is much too civilized, or other terms that are much too crude), with anyone with a $10.00 bill, will outproduce the intellectual who chooses not to bring children into such a world. The animals that breed like dogs in the street will produce the next generation of human beings and they will not be Einsteins or Mozarts.
In the interest of civility.
I agree that this site is open to all but I am not sure how it could be described as Democratic as that would seem to imply that users have some say in who controls, or has athority over the content of this forum. I am not in athority and have no say in the content herein, and I do not understand the use of the term 'Tyranny' in conjunction with my user I. D. All are free to express themselves here, as all are free to comment, question, and critize what is posted. Anyone who submits should be prepared to defend or be corrected. This site truly embodies a freedom of ideas as those in control seldom make their presence known. All entries must stand alone on their ideas and content as there is no mechanism whereby one can claim athority, and I 'for one' would probably challenge and such claim to athority. On a very few ocassions an entry has been reported as inapropriate and the 'original content' has been removed, usually for crude or obscene language, the actual message has 'to my knowledge' not been the issue. It is also advisable to ascertain if a post is made in a humorous manner so that offense is not taken where none was intended. I must admidt that some of my Humor is a bit dry and obscure but Ill feelings are not my intention in most cases. There have been some obnoxcious posts where I will 'reply in kind' (I have little tolerance for crudeness or stupidity) but I try to be civil and polite with my entries. If your humor was as dry as mine then I got what I deserved. I look forward to your reply but I hope not to wait 27 months.
Depends on your point of view.
Wow ! Now who's in a testy mood? Yes all words are labels, but some are carelessly applied. I try to teach 'those in my influence' to think for themselves and not be swayed by the prejudice of others. Just as taste in food, smells can be judged independently, and yes some may be strong and may be disagreeable at first but 'being offensive' is taught. Everything can be beautiful to someone or something, road-kill is a meal for scavangers, insects and micro-organisims, and in the absence of large predators, here in the east, is a way, along with hunting, to cull the herd. In the past predation controled the numbers of animals. Since man has driven out all the large predators, man must now take the responsability of controling the wild populations. Natural 'Disasters' are the Earth's way of rejuvenating itself. Some Pine trees do not germinate and produce new growth unless exposed to forest fire. Old growth forests provide little food for animals, but when it burns the new growth is a bounty of plant and for animal life. War is mankinds way of killing off the surplus population, solve the population problem and you will probably do away with war. Curing prejudice would also help with that, but war has driven most of the technological advances that we now enjoy, such as computers and the internet, It's all driven by war. Man calls things Ugly due to getting in the way of natural processes and paying the consequences.
What do you look for ?
I will rest on my original thought, 'Beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. If you look for 'Ugly' that is what you will find. If you look for 'Beauty' then that is what you will find.
Way out fiction !
I'm sorry, but this is a bit too trite and cliche'd to be real. Anyone being this casual, on seeing an actual extreterrestrial, would need to be so far out of touch with reality, as to have nothing meaningful to say. Sounds like a juvenile fantasy, especially the part about the hot women, or some really nasty drugs. While I appreciate the contributions of younger people, this is a bit much.
Role Model.
I believe that, near the end, Hitler said that the German people did not deserve a ruller as great as himself, and then he committed suicide, (I was going to say he blew his brains out, but that would have been impossable). Perhaps Hitler's is the government that you deserve.
Unusual Cloud.
It is correct that ordinary clouds will not effect radio signals, (but they may reflect them) but the Earths magnetic field extends well above the atmosphere and shields us from the effects of the solar wind and sunspots. It is possible that the smoke and fog you encountered was not an ordinary water vapor cloud, but contained some contaminant that carried a strong electrostatic charge that interfered with the radio signal. Just my speculation on the situation. Did you go out into the fog, and if so did you notice a smell or other effect like burning of the eyes or other irritation?
Smoke gets in your 'radio?'.
The 'faint odor like smoke' may be the answer, if someone upwind was burning something that released elements in the smoke that interfered with or blocked the radio signals. If it was a large area effected, it may have come from a large industrial or chemical plant upwind of your location. Also the Earths magnetic field is generated by the spinning of the Earths molten Iron/nickel core. The metals, close enough to the surface to mine, would have no effect unless they were manufactured into electronec equipment that interfered with radio signals. Lightning has little effect except as occasional static or if it strikes and blows out a radio transmitter.
Are you still bored?
You are certainly free to post on this site, but do not expect your entries to be accepted unchallenged, if others have different ideas. You seem to think that no-one has the right to question or correct you. I do not hate you, that would require more direct contact, I know you only by your participation in this forum. I object to your condecending attitude, as you seem to be talking down to other contributors. I do not care what you say about me, but I do not like your treatment of others, many of whom I have respect for. You are not the acknowledged athority on this site, nor am I, nor anyone else. I am glad that I could relieve your boredom, but that was of your own making.
Limited words.
One of the difficulties on this site, is to express in a few hundred words or characters, an idea, or concept that has been formed over many years and much other material. If my condensed post's are not always clear please ask questions and I will try to elaborate, though sometimes when the source was many years ago that may be difficult. I appreciate your interest as there hasn't been much on this site on this subject.
Space does not streach.
Hello MarkyT, Thankyou for the reply, actually I do believe in the idea that the large scale structure of the universe resembles bubbles. What I do not agree with is the theory that the universe is expanding because space itself is streaching, which is related to, but not the cause of the structure. Indeed the overall shape of the whole universe in unkown, as we can only observe an area aproximately 14 billion light years in radius, since that is the estimated age of the universe and light from anything farther away has not had time to reach us. There are scientists (Margret Gellor is one) who have been maping the position of galaxies and have discovered the structure that resembles a froth of soap bubbles, that work is ongoing. I do not disbelieve their findings but offer my own explination of that structure. The 'Big Bang' of creation is ongoing with new matter and space coming into existance within the voids forming the structure that is observed. If space were streaching everywhere including within atoms the increase in each atom would indeed be undetectable. My point was that all atoms and molecuels would expand along with humans and their instruments and the whole universe, and that expansion would be undetectable. The argument might be made that the speed of light is a constant and in an expanding universe would appear to slow down, but time is not a constant and time would slow so the measured speed of light would remain constant. I disagree with the streaching of space and say that space is expanding because there is more of it.
Creator.
Hello MarkyT, my belief in God is not compartmentalized for different applications, but God is multifaceted for many occasions. I believe that there is a God who is the creator of the Universe and has existed for all eternity. It may be difficult, if not impossable for the finite mind of man to fathom the infinite that is God, but we may learn something. As the creator God would have been responsible for all things including DNA which is the source of most of our human abilities. Therefore God is the first teacher of all things including Humans. I do not claim to speak for God or to define him within human or my own limits, I think God can define himself, and if desired will limit himself, but it is not up to me to do so. I do not discredit or deny anyone elses belief in what, or who God may be, but only state my own beliefs and let it stand at that. If I say that I think someone is wrong, so be it. There are many in organized religions who claim that one must choose either creation or evolution, and I say this is wrong. God created the Universe and life, and with life evolution is how he did it, I accept both creation and evolution as two parts of the explination of life came to be. - - - -B.T.W. Eternity and time are not equivalent and do not mean the same thing.
Not enough time, but all of Eternity.
Time is a sequence of events, Eternity is existance apart from cause and effect, apart from dualism. Time is an illusion, it is our perception and memory of one event happening after another, like the mechanical device that regularily ticks off one second after another. It is also our anticipation of what may happen in the future, like the impressions of the words that I have just written on the page, and the words that I think to write next. The current instant is our only reality, the past no longer exists, and the future has not yet happened. It has been said that the present is where eternity intersects with time. If we could break free of the 'passage of time' we could experience eternity. Indeed this may happen occasionally, how many times have you been 'lost in the moment' and then come back to the never ending sequence of events that we call time?
Change?
Thankyou, yes the human environment may be considered unnatural by some definitions, but the current conditions may be considered as natural for modern man by other criteria. This is the world in which we live, and to which we must, and will addapt. Evolution is not always a long slow process but whan conditions change rapidly populations will change rapidly to survive. Species will change slowly or rapidly depending on how quickly the environment is changing. Humans will either evolve in form or use technology to survive and allow evolution to catch up in the long run.
Homework?
This really sounds like a high school project and this young person is avoiding looking the information up himself. I hope you get a good grade on your paper.
Not really.
It is true that any fact or subject can be debated, but when an experiment is done correctly and the results are always the same there is little point in arguing against it. Philosophers can claim and argue that red is really green or blue is actually yellow, but that will not change the wave-length of the light reflected by these colors. You can argue and discuss any object that you want, but the dialogue will not change the physical charicteristics of the item one bit. Say what you want, the world will remain as it is, unless you take an axe to it. Newtons laws of gravity and motion described how physical bodies reacted to gravity and forces. These laws still apply now and are unchanged. Einstein's theory did nothing to negate or change Newtons laws, he did provide a somewhat better understanding of why gravity works the way it does. Einstein did not establish a new set of laws for gravity, Newtons laws are still in effect and are used to make accurate predictions where-ever motion or gravity is encountered. Scientists are searching to discover a Quantum theory of gravity, but this will not effect Newtons laws, but will improve our understanding. Most of the recient advances in science do not negate or replace what has been discovered before but deepen or refine our understanding, only a few principles of science have been disproved, most are still very much in effect. The dispute over the geocentric and the heliocentric view of the solar system was not a scientific difference, but was between the church and scientists. This misunderstanding by the general public can be attributed to the media who often use a headline like "new discovery changes everything' in order to stir up interest, when in fact the new discovery was a minor adjustment to an existing theory. When the micro wave backround radiation was found it merely confirmed the existing Big Bang theory, but did not change anythiing. Many discoveries are given excessive hype by the media, misleading people to believe that the old science is wrong and new science is taking it's place. The new science is usually a deepening or a refinement of our understanding of the old science. - - - - - - Your squrrel could make an case that James did not walk arround him but the argument would be faulty. The squirrel failed to take into account that he moved arround the tree while James moved arround him and the tree. Faulty logic does not negate a true fact. I don't know what the squirrels are like where you are but I have yet to find one that could hold up his end of a rational discussion, they seem to be preoccupied with trees, acorns, other squirrels, and avoiding hawks. Mildely interesting but mundane.
To the point.
The Earth's atmosphere is vital to life on Earth, and everything that can be done, should be done to preserve it. Pollution is the most important factor, if not the only factor, contributing to the distruction of the atmosphere. There are many substances going into the atmospheere that are causing damage and these should be carefully controled if not eliminated. There are others that cause no damage but do contribute to Global Warming. Global Warming is a complex issue and has many contributing factors, and polutants that destroy the atmosphere, are but one factor. My objection is that those who claim that Global Warming will be a disaster, as a means to require the elimination of polution, are confusing the issue and should focus on pollution and the atmosphere, and solve that problem. By making wild unfounded predictions about Global Warming they loose credability, and therefore discredit the real issue of preserving the atmosphere. These people should avoid wild exagerations and state their case in a straight forward and truthful manner, thus maintaining their credability to present their case, and be taken seriously.
very good reply.
It is fortunate that the mind can formulate concepts and ideas and the brain can translate these through the hands onto a keyboard and then to the internet where they can be shared by all. The internet is a product of those who's minds can invision concepts, which are then turned into a physical reality, that is a marvelous vehicle for some to express that the mind and contemplation is the true source of truth, and knowledge of that truth. The mind is the intrepreter of the senses (though sometimes in error), and is the seat of intuition. The mind is also the vessel by which some acheve enlightenment which transcends the mind with it's illusions. The case is made for the mind over the evidence of the senses, but the mind is subject to error.
Stay the course.
It is true that there is a middle ground but it has not been stated here yet. Everything that is done by man is first thought of, reasoned out, visulized and then translated into a physical reality. Einstein developed his theory by first conducting a 'Mind Experiment' and after developing his ideas, verified these through mathmatics and experiments by himself or others. Many aspects of his theories were not confirmed till many years later, and one was rejected when it was proved to be wrong. The middle ground is where one can accept the intellectual and the spiritual, along with the practical and physical to obtain a complete view and understanding of the world. One size does not fit all, one view does not work for all, and one set of beliefs does not account for all. Let each find the truth for themselves in their own way, and for some let them rant and rave and not find the truth if that is their choise.
Zen ?
For someone who is not trying to prove or disprove anything you seem to be stating your case very strongly. One point of curiosity, do you claim to have achieved 'Zen Enlightenment' or is this something you have read about? I have read that 'Those who say do not know, and those who know do not say'. Could your understanding be subject to error due to the illusions of your own mind?
I am sometimes opposite.
Thankyou 'Tongue in cheek' or not I accept the comment, and I admidt that at times I will play 'Devil's advocate' and take an opposing view for sake of the dialogue. What troubles me is the occasional hostility that is expressed. I can understand that some have strong feelings for important issues, but a verbal assault is not likely to win others to your point of view, but will probably generate more hostility. Also participents should more carefully read and consider a post before responding, as many times the reply does not seem to relate to what is being responded to. A hasty reply is likely to be incorrect and may be off topic.
Juvenille Ignorance?
No the 'scientific method' is not faulty, it has been tried and tested and not found wanting but occasionally a scientist is at fault for a mistake that has been made, but these are usually corrected in time. Could you elaborate further on your 'Symbotic Harmony' sounds like an interesting concept.
This is not difficult?
As I said if man cannot evolve, he will use technology to survive, perhaps scuba tanks in an unbreathable atmosphere, with purification plants to clean the air, and sealed greenhouses to grow food? Where is your faith in man's ingenuity?
Learn to read. Or have the adult read more slowly.
In my former post I was stating that when different individuals or groups rigidly hold opposing views and refuse to acknowledge any possibility of the opposing view being valid, then there is not middle ground possible. You have misread, and failed to comprehend what I have written, and this is a common error on this forum. contributors will pick a phrase out of context and attack it, which does nothing to promote any kind of mutual understanding, but only contributes to hostility and lack of intelligent dialogue. If you cannot understand my post, in the context of the entry to which I am responding please do not twist the dialogue in a direction that is inapropriate. There is a middle ground between reasonable and rational people who are willing to listen to an opposing view, and I do not say that they must accept it, but at least consider and try to understand it. As far as 'one size fits all' not everyone has the same definition of peace, to some it is the distruction of all who do not believe as they do. Only when everyone can accept the differences of others will we have true peace. Symbotic Harmony will need to accomidate many differend beliefs and ideas to be accepted and succesful.
There may be cause for hope?
There are many like you and I who understand the something needs to be done, but I have no power, no credentials, no athority to order others into action. Only when those in power and athority understand that the time for action is now, and know the correct course of action, will the problem be solved. Unfortunatly there is a lot of rhetorical B.S. being spread and the correct course of action may be thwarted by politics. When there is a profit and political gain to be had then the action will be taken. I have faith in man's ingenuity, but not in man's greed.
Try again.
Before you criticize me any further I think you should review my earlier posts, all of them, in context, to understand my position on these issues. If you have any mature rational comments to make I would be interested in hearing them, but I am not interisted in idealistic juvenile fantasy, Let's have some workable solutons to the worlds problems.
Discord #3
Interisting idea but I would only participate if there were three harmonicas involved, and you know who would get the third. In spite of what you may think, you are in no way superior to anyone else participating in this forum. I agree that the outcome would not be plesant, as I am not at all competent with a harmonica. As a comparison try singing in a language that you do not know.
Wait a bit.
You need to learn some patience, Four days on this site, without a reply, is not unusual. Your question may not be as profound as some but it is still worth a little thought.
Sing along?
Interisting song lyrics, would be nice to know the writer, Are they copied or paraphrased?
Context?
Just like MarkyT you have misread and miss understood my post. In The post to which I ws replying, MarkyT was ranting about the scientific method, and nothing was said about peace and harmony or love. I can see that your particular fixation is on peace and harmonyand love, and these are nobel aspirations in the proper place, but please keep things in context to the particular issue being discussed.
Focus.
You also need to focus on the particular issue of each thread, and not digress. If you wish to open another line of thought please do so in another thread.
Solid Rock?
It is true that humans exist in a dual reality, both spiritual and temporal existence. I alluded to the spiritual in my post on Eternity, but we must recognize and cope with the physical as well. Many claim that the physical world is an illusion, but if you stub your toe on a rock the pain is real and I would submit that the rock is real too. The electro-chemecal signals in the brain do not just spontaniously start by themselves for no reason. You have walked on the beach and seen the different cloud formations and the patterns of ripples in the sand, have not others seen these, are these not shared experiences? - - One thing you must do sometime, go out early in the morning and watch the sunrise. Don't do anything else, don't walk, talk, read, just watch and listen to the sunrise. - - Religion teaches of this dual reality, budhists live 'in the world but not of the world', and christ taught to "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's". if God acknowledges the reality of the physical, who are we to doubt it, or do you doubt the existence of God, if so then the whole universe may be a figment of my imagimation, but then 'I think therefore I am', do I doubt my own existence? The world, the evidence of your senses are real just as eternity, the awareness of the spiritual, is real. Resisting the knowledge of either will only cause distress. Of course this may all be the effects of the wine, it's really good wine, now would that be of the spirit's? I think the wine is real.
Refinement.
Funny, you are using 'herstory' as an abbreviation for 'her history'. Which is what I ment.
Unthinkable !
Wow ! Thai Sean and I are in agreement about things, I don't know if I can deal with this. Quick, Thai, disagree with me about something !
Difficult at best.
I'm not sure that you can uncover your own history on a site where you know no-one, except by what they post, and they do not know you, except by what you post. If you mean the history of Humanity, in part or in whole, then I think you are out of luck. History is written by the Victors, and Earths history has been one of conflict with winneers and loosers. Even if the defeated ever contribute it is often just as distorted as the 'Official History'. You would need the help of 'Dr Who' and his TARDIS to find the truth, but I think that 'Dr Who' is fiction, just as much of the history you will find in print or on the internet. Possibly the best hope of finding the truth is to look to Mythology.
Self-effacing? Who Me?
I always try to be reasonable, even if that leads to mediocrity and blandness. I suppose that I acknowledge my user I.D. with part of the Hippocratic Oath "above all do no harm", though some may disagree. Mystery might be even better served by Mythology.
Two sided.
Forgiveness is best if it is two sided and both can move on, but even forgiveness by the one who is wronged can allow that person to get on with their life.
I'll be more specific
Yes Bad things come in a wide variety of events, but the inclusion of the words revenge and payback was intended to indicate the actions of another person or group. When a tree falls, or a storm or other natural disaster happens, or you just drop a hammer on your toe, retribution has no meaning. When the harm is the result of another persons act, vengence is often the first reaction and will usually only lead to more harm. When there is regret and forgiveness, both parties can find some healing and move on. I do not advocate that the person causing injury should be excused from legal penalties, this is a seperate issue from the personal understanding and healing between individuels. In the future I shall endevor to be more specific in my posts to avoid misunderstanding and confusion. I also see that the bad can be the good if viewed with the proper attitude.
Playing around.
I think we need to be more clear as to what constitutes to 'Play around in someone elses mind', not all posts are made with that intent. When one is genuinely seeking answers, or to provide information, the entry would not be rude or inapropriate. If the intent is to mislead or confuse that would be 'playing with someones mind' and would be rude and unproductive. Thai, what is your opiniion, or do you always parrot someone elses thoughts.
Whine !, I lost points ! Whine !
I think i'll get upset and whine About loosing points ! Seriously I would gladly share my wine with you. If you where here I would pour you a glass, with ice if you like. Or Tell me where to pour it into my computer, and how to send it to you in an e-mail, and I'll do it. Alternatly I'll tell you what I am drinking, It's 'Kings' - 'Ruby Port', it's an inexpensive sweet red wine.
No arrows intended.
Allowing your friend to answer for you is generous, but as your name is at the bottom, you must take responsibility for the entry. As you say evertything that is being said has been said before, but how many 'new ears' have not heard, and how many need to hear what has gone before. Perhaps you should be superfluous for the benefit of those 'new ears' who have not heard. I fear that there are many who are too lazy to look at and learn from the past, and that is why we repeat it.
Truth Hurts.
How much more harmful, and enslaving, is living in a lie or a fantisy world. I heard somewhere that the week enslave themselves, however it may have just been an excuse.
Spelling correction noted.
I ment that it was an excuse of the strong, who take advantage of the weak.
Inertia.
In most places the government reflects the will of the people, even if it is just that the people are too apathetic to object. The cast system may have been "officially" eliminated a long time ago but it will take many generations to eliminate it from the attitudes of the general population. In the US slavery was ended over a century ago and segregation was outlawed many years ago, but bigotry and prejudice still exist on both sides of any racial issue. Official doctrin does not take effect in the population as quickly as we might hope.
Haste makes Waste.
Thai Sean, I must say that on this point I agree with you completely. I find this "netspeak" offensive. It makes me wonder if they are too lazy to write things out completely, are they also too lazy to think things through to an intelligent conclusion. A little time spent on a post might result in a more logical and sensible reply. I admidt that I may have been harsh to contributors who did not appear to have given much thought to an entry. Indeed one other user stated that my posts were "Nasty but well deserved". My own preference is to give some time to crystalize my thoughts and sometimes my replys are a few days in coming, not a few seconds as some of the more hasty ones seem to be. I may be a bit slow but at least I make an effort to understand what I am responding to. As much as I like an imediate reply, I prefer a well thought out and reasoned comment.
It's a myth. :)
The Bill Moyer interviews of Joseph Campbell and the series 'The power of Myth' on PBS are excelent but the books may give more depth than you can get on TV. I had them on video and now I miss them.
Apathetic about what?
I would suggest that apathy affects all classes, but perhaps the afluent less than others, the problem is what do they care about?
Very little.
You need to review the posts again, I was advising her on how to avoid repeating mistakes, April is the one who characterized them as 'Stupid'. I only know what April has posted on this site.
Look before you leap.
Certainly history is an excelent teacher, of the results of actions that are being repeted, and to learn from one's past demonstrates some degree of wisdom. I would offer that the other fundamental principle is a variation of "Look before you leap". Try to think through the effects of your actions before you do them. If you are dealing with people that you know, it should be easy to anticipate their reactions. With strangers you will need to rely on some basic human nature and do the best you can. On meeting someone for the first time there are always subtle clues if you look for them. I wish I could be more help but about the only thing that I have learned over the years to avoid 'sticking my foot in my mouth' is to keep my mouth shut, but sometimes I forget.
Kent State !
You mentioned Kent State and I remember an interesting News broadcast at the time that I heard only once and not again (cover up?). The military on campus (National Guard) were armed with weapons of a particular caliber, Excuse me if I get the details wrong, but I think I remember .45 and .308 However the students injured and killed were shot with weapons of a different caliber .223 The guard had been instructed to fire over their heads or into the ground. It seams that someone other that the US military was providing marytars for the cause. As I said I only heard that report once and then someone was shut up for some reason.
Correction.
Thai Sean, I do not recall ever calling you inferior, I may have objected to your condecending and arrogant manner on this site, but I have never doubted that you have a great deal of education. Perhaps it is your belief that you have a great deal to offer that has the appearance of egotism, I do not equate arrogance with inferiority, just rudeness. I do think that your more recent entries are an inprovement over your previous incarnation on this site, your year hiatus seems to have done you good.
Keep trying.
Humor is very dificult on this site, especially mine which tends to be dry and subtle, coupled with the expecitation by others that this is going to be a serious dialogue and most are not looking for humor. As far as following this or any other thread 'let your hair down and have some fun once in awhile' your message may be better received. And I don't care how long your hair is, it's an expression.
Butterflies.
I would suggest that this person did read the question, no one knows how far reaching will be one act towards another person. Can you identify the moment in the life of Kennedy or Martin Luther King that moved them to the course of their lives. Perhaps it was one Epiphany or an accumulation of small influences. Do you know where the causes are in your life that lead you to the path you are on. Do not discount the small acts, they sometimes have large effects.
Clarification.
As for the contradiction, I refer to the definition as found in an English Dictionary and in mine 'Evangelical' is "according to the Gospel or the teachings of the New Testament", and an 'Atheist' is "one who believes there is no God". So believing in the bible - the word of god, and then denying God's existance, seems contraditrory. I am aware that many words are misused in popular usage and this may be one of them, but that does not make it correct. As I said before, and I think we agree, there is a small group of contributors to this site, but we do not know how many others are reading.
P.S.
In regards to my prior post, one might surmise that I was advocating 'Narcissism in Moderation' but that would be a contradiction in terms.
False Front.
Yes, if I were sick and painted myself to look well, that would be counterproductive, that is why I stated to appear without excessive artifical enhancement.
Might be fun to try.
I believe that according to some mythologies, if we discover all the names of God, the world will end?
Legalize drugs?
You are correct in that there are a number of drugs and substances that should not be consumed by humans on a regular and excessive basis. Given the crime and violence associated with the illegal drug trade, I would take a brutally realistic stand and advocate the legalization of all drugs. That way the Government, instead of spending billions to control the illegal traffic, could monitor, regulate, and tax the distribution of these substances. This would help to insure that the drugs were what they are susposed to be and not laced with some dangereous filler, other than the drug itself. In the long run those most susceptible to addiction would eventually O.D. or simply fail to reproduce and eliminate that genetic code from the human gene pool, leaving a population more resistant to addiction, and perhaps the level of drug use would drop off. I know it seems harsh, but with an abundant legal supply, those weaker members of society would simply cease to be a problem. In spite of what some may think not everyone is susceptible to addiction, some can use alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and other drugs and not become addicted.
I believe you misunderstand me.
Actually the individual is important to me, but I am not blinded by the rhetoric of those who seek to take control, because they know better than we do, what is good for us. I do not approve of the current distribution system for drugs, controled as it is by the drug lords, who use intimidation, violence, corruption and murder to protect and promote their business. If governments were not spending money to fight the 'War on drugs' but were collecting money on taxes and licensing fees, some of those funds could be directed to research. I believe that addiction can be at least partly attributed to genetics and if this and other factors could be discovered it may be possible to treat people for addiction if they choose. Of course there will always be some who refuse treatment and continue to use, but many would accept treatment and be free of the habit. There may not be a treatment, but I also know that if we do not look for it, we will not find it. As it is governments spend a lot of money to control an illegal drug trade and collect nothing in revenue. God gave man free will and I would express my love and compassion by allowing my fellow humans the freedom to choose as they see fit. That some will make mistakes, and bad choices, is unfortunate, but it is not my place, nor anyone elses to prevent anothers actions, except where harm to someone else or the care of children is concerned. Education needs to be provided for the effects, consiquences, and problems of use and then let the individual make their own choices. There are, and should be, restrictions with use of drugs and certain activities, such as driving an automobile, or opperating some types of equipment while under the influence. Prohibition did not work, and it doesn't take much intellengence to realize that similar ban's on other substances will not work, and are not working. It is time to legalize everything, regulate, license, and tax these materials. F.Y.I. I do not use and have no intention of using drugs except alcohol and caffeine. I object to the violence and criminality of the drug trade as it now exists. I do not believe that in the long run there will be much increase in the use of drugs, maybe at first, but those who want to use can do so now without much trouble. In the recent past these drugs were avaliable, and there were no mass epidemics of comatose people lying everywhere. No one has the right to make decisions for someone else, and I am sure that no one has the knowledge or intellegence to make those decisions for another adult human being.
Sorry to disapoint you.
I must admidt that I do watch some TV, but my choices are very limited, I do not have cable, and get only 5 chanels. Also I am very selective in what I watch. Comercial TV does not offer much, but PBS has some good music and Drama (like Shakesphere) that I will watch. I do try to watch 'Jeprody' and will admidt that 'David Letterman' is one of my guilty pleasures.
Useful Profanity ?
Hello Quetzalita, just so you know I get your point about drugs, guns, political power, and anything else in the wrong hands is a bad thing. In another post I stated that there should be no bans on anything because reasonable and rational people will use them carefully and correctly, and the others will cease to be a problem after a-while. I really want to talk about "Liberty of Speach" or "Freedom of Expression", and I am really not sure how it applies to this site. There are some contries where it is the law and many where it is against the law, but what exactly applies to this forum? Even where "Freedom of Expression" is the law there are some restrictions. Shouting "Fire" in a crowded place when there is no fire could cause harm or injury to others in the panic to get out. So this is not allowed, as well as Slander and Libel. These are reasonable and proper to be disallowed. But this site is different, all we have are black letters printed on a plain screen, there is no way that my tone of voice can be precieved, if I want to raise my voice, what do I do CAPITALIZE ? big deal ! I do agree that profanity has a certain connotation, "To Fuck up our Brains" does not have the same impact as "To chemically interfeer with our neural function". Someone once said that swearing shows a lack of vocabulary, but I disagree, profanity delivers a definite emotional charge to a statement that cannot be expressed by more eloquent writing. But I, for one, am put off by profanity and I do not like it. I do not use it, but I recognize the emotional charge that it can put on a statement. BUT THIS FORUM? We only have black printed words on a screen, no tone of voice, no shouting will carry from your computer to mine, and no facial expression or gesture can be conveyed. I hope that you are reviewing your post's before you hit the 'submit' button and if you deem profanity necessary to express your passion, then go for it. I will respect that passion, even if I do not like the words you use to express it.
Funny - Silly.
Actually if he knew in advance that you were going to ask that question, he should have just posted the answer and saved you the trouble of asking the question. I agree with you that in this case he was just being cute and somewhat silly.
I certainly hope not.
No, but she did call me a "Know-it-all", so which is more useful on this forum, appearance or intellectual capability? Also I was not surprised at your answer, it seemed to be right in character, and I didn't need intuition to see that. Intuition is somewhat beyond the realm of our conscious awarenessand often confounds what we think we know. Perhaps someone more in touch with the spiritual would knnow but probably would not be able to explain it to those of us not in touch.
Many small steps.
April is correct on this point, there are millions of heroes contributing and making progress everyday, and here is where the real progress must take place. In case you haven't noticed there are no super-heroes ready to swoop in at the last moment to save the world. And just what are the world leaders doing? Flying around in Jets and riding in Limos to conferences, making statements that the world leaders must come to an agreement on how to save the world. Even if these great, important people make a policy and pass laws and regulations, what good will it do if the 'people' don't believe in it. If people don't agree with a law, they will find a short-cut or just get away with the 'letter of the law' and not the 'Spirit'. To actually do some good it must be individuals on all levels who will actually take action to turn things around, and a few tiny little communes doing a 'Green Experiment' will not make any difference in the face of the worlds population. Which of the World Leaders or Green Activists is going to come around and take out my trash, or do my recycling if I don't feel like it? None of Them ! It's people like April and me doing little things and encouraging others to do whatever they can. Many people can't install Solar Pannels or a Wind Generator or drive a Hybred car, but must be content with smaller contributions, because for the same reason that Bob Cratchett had a small goose, "It's all he could afford". The Big Projects, World Leaders, and Isolated Experiments will do no good if the bulk of the population doesn't care or will not try. But things are changing for the better. At a recent home builders show there was a lot of emphasis on 'Green Building', 'Energy Effeciency', and 'Environmentally Friendly' methods and materials. Things are changing, but perhaps to the extreamists who want everything 'right now', not fast enough, but there may be a threshold, that when reached, progress will be made very rapidly. The pessimists and the purveyors of Gloom and Doom are not doing the process and good and may be hindering our ability to fix things. People usually work harder and make more progress when given a little encouragment and told that some things they are doing are a step in the right direction. April, I like your Spirit and attitude, Keep up the good work !
Still the best.
There is more Freedom in the USA than anywhere else in the world, Why else would everyone want to come here? And our Democracy might not be perfect, but it works better than anywhere else. We have enough of our own problems, we do not want or need anyone elses. You need to look at some history to see what a Fascist government really looks like.
Here we go again.
You need to read my post again and not take a single phrase out of context. I said "if most people are gone" meaning the population has been reduced to only a few. And ended by saying "Don't overdo it" meaning stop at a few million, don't go to 6 billion. It is really tiresome having to explain my entry, I wish you would just read more carefully. As far as me being God, They could do worse.
Think Small.
Space is what you make of it, If you have a window, you can have a window box and grow some herbs and spices to flavor your cooking. I have over two acres of forest, and I can't grow anything but trees, and Poison Ivy. Lack of sunlight and acid soil are a bad combination.
Rather Pointless.
One Bear even aproaching an oil company representative, would be shot, with little or no effect on the oil company.
One size does not fit all.
You cannot paint all Americans with the same brush, we do not all have cars. I have the vehicles that I need, but my daughter and her husband live in New York City and do not have a car. I know people in my area that do not have cars and some do not have drivers licenses, and they are getting along OK.
"American way of Life?"
The "American way of Life' is an Idealized condition created and sold by the media and comercial intrests, and seldom realized in the real world. Why don't you describe in detail what you believe the "American way of Life" is, and perhaps some of us who live in the USA can tell you what a fantisy it really is.
Spay and Neuter.
I don't know Thai, perhaps Castration and Hysterectomys are the answer, if we Spay and Neuter all the murderers, rapists, drug dealers, bigots, politicians, CEO's high level executives, and everyone else we don't like, along with all their current decendents, perhaps we could eliminate those undesirable genes form the human gene pool and have the utopia that everyone is whining that we don't have. Didn't Hitler propose that as a solution.
What is the topic?
Are you sure this is off topic? isn't population control the core problem. Fewer people use fewer recources, have fewer conflicts, and would not destroy the environment? Sustainable civilization requires a sustainable population and I think we have exceded that, so shouldn't that be the point of our dialogue?
Safe Cigarettes?
I think your points are very well taken but I would question the third. With the ban there may be fewer people smoking but the quality and 'safety?' would not be regulated and there may be just as many sick people in the hospitals. Secondhand smoke would be less as those smoking would need to hide it. I really question the idea of the 'Safety of Cigarettes', it seems like a contradiction of terms.
Perception.
"Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder", this brought back memories of the "Philosophy 101" class that I took in college. The regular professor was off for a few classes and we had a substitute, during a discussion on aesthetics another student used that phrase and the professor was quick to point out "not in the Eye but in the Mind". It seemed to me that he was just too thick to accept that 'the Eye' refered to perception and while vision does occur in the eye perception and cognition takes place in the mind. I felt that he was being extremely picky about nothing, perhaps a but of a meathead. Another time I was amused that I (an Industrial Art's major) was explaining subjectivism and objectivism to another student who proposed to be a philosophy major, and her reaction was "Do you mean people actually believe that?" Unfortunatly my major did not allow any more electives and I was unable to pursue this interest except on my own, thinking back on it, she was very actractive and I don't know why I didn't pursue her?
Who are you calling 'Old' ?
The Phrase "Beauty is only Skin Deep" Usually only refers to physical beauty, the outward appearance. "Inner Beauty" is another matter. If a person is very attractive in physical appearance, but is mean spirited, shallow, unkind, and without compassion for others, their 'beauty is only skin deep'. Another person may be very kind and giving, with a good attitude and manner towards others, but physically unactrive, that person has inner beauty. Some people are beautiful inside and out. l Inner beauty can last and often improves with age, but on rare occasions adversity can break it down. Beauty that is only skin deep will often fade with age, illness, and sometimes through unhealthy living. - - As for my ponderings, I protest being called 'Old', - I don't feel old, - - - most of the time,- - - or at least some of the time. - - - - - I don't think 'Sexagenarians' are considered old anymore, are they, - - - I can't remember !
False sense if company.
I've heard the same said about a Rubber Ducky, but that is only if you are in the bath. The internet is hardly a cure for loneliness, more like a cause of isolation and being alone.
Not just for fun.
Out of 6 billion that is not very many, and according to some, all religious types have an imaginary friend 'God'. I think the number should be several billion.
True Democracy? - - Dificult at best.
My first thought was that democracy was tried in ancient Greece, but then I remembered that it was restricted to property owning citizens, and excluded many including slaves and women. Perhaps with the internet and electronic access for everyone? we could try it again. But the elected representatives would not want to give up their power and position.
Sincerely, Love an good fortune.
Thai Sean, I hope I can get my comments posted before you leavefor the jungle. I seem to remember that you refereed to a sustainable community, is that correct?
Best wishes for times to come.
Sustainable farming is one of the most basic and necessary needs of a sustainable society. Food production is the foundation of any culture. You state that sustainable agriculture was practiced for thousands of years till superceded by modern intensive methods. I would recomend research into those ancient methods as pre-modern farmers may have known things about insect repelents and fertilizers that have been forgotten in modern times. Just as modern engineers cannot discover techniques used by the ancients to produce many structures, so modern farmers have forgotten many ancient and natural methods to increase crop production. Discovering what the ancients did and how they did it will give insight and direction for further research. - - As for your lecture tour, there is an old saying, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". Those whom you hope to win to the environmental cause might respone if anything that they have done is recognized rather than critisizing what they have not done. Encourage them to continue and increase their good efforts and it may get better results.
Cyberlove?
So you stare at your computer screen and don't feel lonely, I suppose that you and your computer have a really good relationship. I prefer contact with real people.
The circle of life.
Hello, and congratulations on another year of Doves on your kitchen window sill. This is the beautiful thing about nature that it continues, we could be romantic and imagine that it is the same pair that met there last year and the year before and that is good. But the reality is that the doves that return, and the hawks, may be the same ones from the year before or they may be the offspring. Most importantly is that the struggle continues, the doves return, the hawks return, and life continues. That is the beauty of nature. Too many are horrified that a single life may end, but fail to realize that all life feeds on death in one way or another. So enjoy the beauty and peace that the Doves bring to you, but do not ignore the beauty of the hawks as well. Nature is a wonderful balance if humans would just stop meddling with it.
I'll be back.
This issue is too important for a quick answer. I have posted a lot already, and will post more later.
Good point.
I believe that you are correct, but if we use the government at all it should be to protect individuals from each other, and individuals should take responsability for themselves.
Dove couples.
Just thought I'd mention that yesterday we were cleaning up in the house and I noticed a pair of Doves courting in our car port. It's nice to be able to watch nature even in a development, or a City.
Being so few of us, maybe it doesn't matter.
Sorry but I don't agree, after reviewing his post's many of his questions are poorly thought out and presented, some are irrational and without merit. That he has posted a few good questions only proves the old saying " Every once in awhile, even a blind squirel finds an acorn."
Mutual respect is important.
I agree we each have made a choice, and if I were in your presence, and new your preference, I would not indulge in a steak out of respect. Many of the worlds problems come from people who do not respect the choices of others, or do not want to allow others to choose. P.S. I am not really a 'Doctor' It's just my user I.D. based on a 'nick-name' given to me by my friends.
Explain Please.
I can excuse, and even welcome, your analysis and comments, but what I cannot excuse is repetedly entering the same post four times. I feel that space on this site is precious and posting the same thing four times is wasteful and inconsiderate of others. However on reviewing your other posts I can see that you are a thoughtful person and if you can provide a reasonable explination for this apparently inconsiderate action, I will forego my expression of anger and distain. Also I am not suggesting that we give up any cultural events any more than I am suggesting that we restrict the very few individuals who indulge in High preformance cars, and in spite of the bigoted sterotype I do not believe that they have any personal shortcomings. That sounds like 'sour grapes' from those who cannot indulge. Consider that the vast majority of new automobiles being produced are polluting less and less each year. So a few individuals are preserving a part of our cultural heratage, these vehicles are not driven on a regular basis and do not significantly contribute to pollution, and possably less than the performers and audience in driving to and from the concert. Your concerts and religious services will need to account for transportation before you discount the pollution from that activity. Some men just enjoy the feel of horspower, like others like a symphony, or the taste of a good meal, (meat or no meat ! ). We are not all the same, and one size does not fit all.
Astare who ?
Astare the most famous ? He did not always dance alone, and really only rarely, usually with a partner. The most famous ? Gene Kelly is up there. In some circles Mikhail Baryshnikov is well known, and reciently Michael Flatly is doing well ? Yes I would prefer that God can dance, and laugh, and cry along with the rest of us.
L.O.L. (Laughing out loud).
I see that you are still having trouble with your internet connection, but I like your sense of Humor.
Not all are young and reckless.
Hello, the internet may be spotty there but it is not perfect here either, so I can understand the problem. Keep up the good comments. I am open to dialogue, 'Argue' has certain negative conotations, but let us continue. I do have more to say about high horsepower cars and their owners but do not have the time right now. I will say that not all car owners are the same.
Polar Express
My 3 year old grandson really likes the movie so I have seen or heard it several times a week for the last 2 years. It was the first DVD that we replaced after the fire. I have noticed several elements and themes that may have mythological origins and would like know if anyone else can confirm and explain them. I understand that most movies, books, plays and other stories have themes that draw from mythology, but I am curious about this particular movie. Thankyou.
Effective correction.
Yes, It would all depend on what "yourself" you are being true to. If that is a 'Butchering murderous Tyrant' it may not be a good thing. But if you are a kind and benevolent person, that is a different story. "To thine own self be true" may not be good advice to a psychopath. The usual intention is to emulate generous and selfless motives.
Interesting Reading.
I'm glad you are finding it interesting. One thing I have learned is that Myths have many levels of meaning and understanding, and learning the symbolism can lead to a more meaningful reading. I'm afraid I'm not there yet, and haven't had much time to post here, been a bit busy with the new house, finding a builder, and my younger daughters wedding this Sunday. The idea of levels in Myths reminds me of Kata's in the Martial Arts where it was said that first you learn the Kata and then you learn from the Kata, interesting parallel. Joseph Campbell has a number of other works that may be worth looking into.
No need to change anythig.
There is no need to redefine 'War', it has always involved the factors you describe, but the victors write and sanatize history to alter the preception of the purpose of the war. All the factors you mention have been in place through-out history, People have just gotten more effecient at butchering each other.
Onions? - Wilson?
My wife really likes onions, I can't get her to cook without them. Sometmes is burns my eyes when she does. But I like eating them. And I like 'Flip', I used to watch his show, it was funny at times.
No, a lot of times she is wrong.
Yes I'm sure it is a Woman thing, most Women think that they can read Men's minds. But usually when some All Knowing Woman tells me that she know's what I'm thinking, they have been totally wrong. This is a lot of stereotyped bigotry perpetuated by a bunch of self-righteous femi-nazi's trying to maintain their false sense of superiority. If you are a woman you CAN NOT read a man's mind, it just seems that way with a particular person, because of familiartiy with a particular individual, man or woman.
Too Late !
She's already up on her 'soap box' waving her banner, trying to convince herself that she is right. I'm not sure what post's you are reading but I am not a bigot or a chauvinist, but I do object to the small minorty of women who are feminasts, making a lot of noise about a small minority of men who are chauvinists. I regret that there are a large number of people, men and women of all races, who are bigots, but I am not among them, but I think that you may be. Yes you would not be interested in reading my mind, my thoughts would only be of interest to open-minded, rational individuals, but I would need to verbalize them or write them down for someone else to know them.
Equality.
You would loose your bet, my wife and I share equally in our relationship. Who do you say dominates your's? Oh, my wife dosen't like feminist's either.
Don't resist, Jump right in.
April, don't you like dialogue? A bit of back and forth would be good for this site. I think in the end she will be reasonable.
Duck !
Hello April, it seems that you are not the only one with a nerve that can be struck. The fiction about mind reading got my attention and then the "womans thing" with it's implied female superiority got me going. The feminists that I am familiar with sterotype all men together with a single set of qualities and attributes. This is bigotry, pure and simple, to prejudge a person before you get to know them as an individual. I would be surprised if she has read more than just a few of my more recent post's. And now after a little bit of criticism she is crying about running away. This site should be based on truth and honesty, and what I believe to be the truth is what I should honestly state here. If Samsara has some reliable evidence about mind reading, I would like to see it. If she can tell me how to do it I will try it. But to strut this about as some female superiority over men is nonsense, just as any other claim for any kind of gender or racial superiority or inferiority. I firmly believe in human equality and any difference has nothing to do with gender or race. In the final analysis the truth hurts, just like a thrown knife, perhaps that is the cruelist cut of all. - - - There is a line from a show, "Only your friends will tell you the whole stink'in truth". Or not?
Evil is not inherent.
Hello Zotlin, glad to see your back, and writing another book, I see. Very good answer, I see nothing that I can disagree with, and you know, I would if I could. But I would like to add something, in regards to evil, I have posted on hatred and bigotry, which are forms of evil, and have concluded that this is taught in the social group of friends, and even more so in the family group. Non-human animals, in nature, are not evil, that is strictly a human social charistic. Yes there is killing and eating by predator of prey, but that is not evil, just natural survival. Killing for social reasons is strictly a human practice, and the accounts of violence among chimpanzees does not count as they are protecting their territory which is their food source. Humans are the only creatures to whom we can apply the term 'evil' and that is not inherent but taught within the social group. So if you could eliminate the negative social influence, Humans could become more natural and less evil.
A calm voice quells anger.
April, I'm sure that you have heard the expression "Oil on Troubled Waters", it seems that this is your time. My intention is not to quench the fire, but to stimulate debate. I will with-hold my numerous comments till Samsara has replyed. My hope is to alter them completely.
Just curious.
Samsara, I would be interested in your answer to this question. http://www.droppingknowledge.org/bin/posts/focus/36080.page Just click on it and you will goto the page.
Not Guilty.
April, excuse me but if you review my post's, I do not engage in name-calling. What I do is to delineate certain characteristics, and apply a label to them. If some member identifies with the characteristics, and out of guilt, feels that I am applying the label to them, that is their own conscience speaking to them, and not me. I have reviewed my more recient post's and have not applied any name to any particular person, though I may have in the past, and I am trying not to be negative about it.
Your best is silly?
I'm not sure what kind of game you think you are playing here, this is not a competitiion, and as soon as you talk of victors and inferior we all lose. This is not the shoot-out at the D-K coral, and in spite of your juvinile challenge I am not going away. You might like to think 'this site ain't big enough for the both of us' but there is room for all who wish to contribute constructivlty. I think you have been watching too many 'Spaghetti Westerns'. I like it here and find some of it interisting. If you feel abused and ill-used, good-by, otherwise if you have the strength of character, continue to post, but expect a challenge once in a while. Putting your argument to the test of a bet is silly 'put your money where your mouth is' is an adolescent challenge that proves nothing. Back up your ideas with substance, or go away. Thai sean (not 'Thailand sean') at least get his user I.D. correct, started out much like you, arrogant, superior, and condecending, but he left after 'abuse and apathy' for awhile, and came back a much more reasonable, respectiful, and interesting person. You say that you came here 'not to learn, I am learned', how wrong you are. All who come here do so to learn and to contribute. If you have nothing to learn you probably have nothing to teach. It also seems that you are more inclined to name-calling than I am. I imply that some labels may apply, but you have directly called me an 'old crudgmugen' 'childish' 'a bigot' 'anti feminist' 'a chauvinist' and you question that I am a man. I find your latest post's immature and without merit. You really should work on your anger, but your inflated ego is not helping, some therapy might help, if it is a woman therapist. As I stated before I am not a 'Doctor" but 'TheDoc' is what some of my friends call me, considering recient post's you may call me 'Sir'.
You need to get some.
Considering you most recent post's I think I know what you need, - the attention of a real man, not some submissive whimp that you are used to, but a real man. And another Dyke with a strap-on doesn't count.
Pray for yourself, you need it.
You certainly like to indulge in name-calling don't you. What kind of Nun uses such anger and venom as you have in your post's. There is nothing wrong with my manners, but as for you members will often reply in kind to a post, So you will reap what you sow.
We are all in this together.
The 'we' is a sort of psychological collective that many will try to identify with. Most people want to believe that they are not alone and are like everyone else, and their problems are like everyone else's. This is why support groups are so succesful where people can meet with others and find a sense of comunity. No-one wants to be alone (almost no-one) and there is comfort in knowing that others face the same difficulty or loss. 'SilverBiospark' is trying to connect with the rest of humanity in the hope that others share his concern. Please don't criticize him for using this terminology as I am sure there are others who share his view.
Power in belief.
Everyone believes in something, some claim to not believe and thereby believe in the negative. It is important to know what you believe and why, blind faith can sometimes lead to dissapointment and disillusionment, and a lack of faith is not healthy. It is said that 'Santa Claus' is a symbol of the spirit of Christmas, I see nothing wrong with giving, goodwill, and charity, this world could do with more of that. Is it possable that for those who believe 'Santa Claus' is real and for those who don't, he does not exist? How many objects of belief are created by that belief? If everyone stoped believing in 'Santa Claus' would Christmas, with it's love and kindness and giving just disappear? I believe in 'Santa Claus'. I don't know if that is a physical reality or just the spirti of Christmas, but it brings joy to the world and if I never see him flying his sleigh across the sky on Christmas Eve, That's OK. I believe in a lot of things including Humanity and that people can be good and that things can get better. I believe that if you believe in good then good things will happen and if you believe in bad then bad things will happen. There is power in belief and faith, if enough of us would believe.
What kind of Nun are you?
Now after all your mean spirited and nasty comments to others and me, you are trying to hide behind being a Nun? If you don't want me to respond, don't post. If you post something that is wrong, I will correct you. You may reply to my entries in whatever manner your alleged religion allows. Baised on your recent post's I am a better Christian than you are of whatever religion you claim to be.
Outside is freedom and opportunity.
Yes inside the Hive, is order, where everyone know their place and stays in it. Inside the Hive everyone is born with strict limits and limited abilities. Human beings are not so limited to a single place or occupation. Outside the Hive is freedom to grow, learn and advance. The Hive mentality has been tried in England with social classes, In India with the Cast system, and one of the worst examples was South Africa with Apartheid. None of these systems, or any like it are good for the people or society. People have the ability to learn and grow and any system that restricts that freedom is primative and unacceptable. The Hive is not appropriate for Human culture and this has been demonstrated over the centuries. Humans have always prospered without artificial restrictions or limits by one group over another. If you choose to forgo your freedom for a limited and regulated Hive please do so but do not try to impose that on others.
The illusion of mind reading.
The ability to know and anticipate the aproximate thoughts and feelings of others is common with people who are in a relationship with another. This ability is especially strong between a parent and child and there is no preference based on gender. It is also true that some parents and children have little or no connection with each other. It is not universal that some can know their partners or children so that it seems that they can read their minds. The ability to literally, word for word, and thought for thought, know anothers mind does not exist. It is only the familarity with, and knowledge of another person that gives the illusion of this talent.
Iron bars? Attitude can set you free.
One flaw in the current Penal system is it's lack of flexability and variety in the means of incareration. There is a wide variety of crimes and criminals, and to complicate this is the uneavenness in the application of punishment to crime. Economics dictates a limited variety of facilities and inapropriate mixing does occur. I may not have as much experience with this as you but I have had some, and I must disagree with you just a little. For a convict to reform requires two factors. The convicts attitude is the first step. some have no remorse or regrets and incarceration is only an interuption in thier chosen activity. Some have an understanding of what they have done and the cost to themselves and to others and can change. Of course there is a wide variety of individuals between these extremes. The other factor is those who are arround them when they get out. If they are in the company of others who are also involved in crime they will not be likely to change. If the people arround them are supportive and offer encouragement they can avoid the kind of activity that leads to trouble. I believe that the second factor may be more important, especially if there is some inclination to be better. Twice in my life I have had the opportunity to assist someone in this situation, the first was a small amount of financial aid, the second is more direct and ongoing. I can only hope that I have made some difference.
I agree. let's rediscover the past.
I would love to drive a smaller lighter car with good preformance, but there are too many stupid people meddling with my choices. People in the larger cities walk or take public transportatiion all the time, but it is not avalable where I live. In the past cars were smaller and lighter, and people traveled on public transportation like trains or interurbans, but the government screwed that up by subsidizing the trucking, and airline industry and almost ruining the railroads. We should return to a lot of practices that have been done before. As far as Government let's 'Turn the Rascals out' get rid of subsisize's, corruption and graft and return to the more basic, economical life style.
'EXcolade'?
Alright "EXcolade" I cannot find that in my dictonary, which may be out of date, so what does it mean?
your feminist ego is showing.
your entries were attacked, not because you are a woman? but because they were wrong. you need to be careful, your arrogance and spite will effect your Karma and your 'samsara' could continue forever. Being a nun will not help a bitter and mean-spirited nature.
Greetings.
http://www.droppingknowledge.org/bin/posts/focus/32248.page Hello, you are mot the moderator of this site, and do not tell others what to do. Thankyou for the reply, I hope you read it carefully.
Glad to see your reply.
http://www.droppingknowledge.org/bin/posts/focus/32248.page I've been here a lot longer than you, and I am not goinbg away.
Things True but Misunderstood.
It should be noted that the people who were giving Jesus a bad reputation were those who were trying to get rid of him. They were in power due to a corruption of their own religious teachings and Jesus, by correcting these teachings, was a threat to their position. That Jesus went to parties ate and drank wine, and was joyful, was to illustrate that people should be happy and enjoy life. Jesus associated with 'tax collectors' and 'sinners', because these are the people that the Church needs to reach. 'Preaching to the Choir' is good but there are many who do not believe and need to hear. The mission of all religions is to reach those who do not already believe but once they have heard it is up to them to believe or not. Buddha was not considered as a 'Savior' but as a teacher or leader who could assist others to achieve the same enlightenment that he did. It seems that buddha was a good prince but was disturbed by a decption of his father and left to become a Mendicant.
Sorry about that.
Hello, I would like to apologize for a comment I made earlier about 'knowing what you need', it was uncalled for and innapropriate for this site.
Timeless.
I was looking thru the site and found Thai Sean's post on 'time, where he asks "So that came first in time night or day?" I would submit that in the overall scheme of the Universe, Time and Eternity, 'Nothing came first'.
The Devil made me do it.
Yes I seem to have this talent, perhaps it's a gift. Some people just can't accept that someone else could disagree with them and not accept what they post without question or comment. This isn't the first time and probably will not be the last.
Thoughts are Appreciated.
This might help to explain the problem. http://www.droppingknowledge.org/bin/posts/focus/34207.page Good luck and stick arround These threads just keep on going.
I believe and so can you.
At risk of saying that your mother told you something that was not true, I would tell you that you can believe if you choose to. It may not help you get any presents but believing in a symbol of Christmas with all it's Joy, Good cheer, and Loving Kindness, is kind of nice.
Welcome Back
Hello Thai, I didn't make the connection of Sean Walker and your user I.D. of Thai Sean. My mistake I apologize. Good to see you back How is the farming going?
Wish, while you are moving.
My Father had a saying about Wishing, just a bit crude, but "Wish in one hand and S--t in the other and see wich one gets full the quickest". Still wishing is a good thing as long as there is some kind of action that goes with it to accomplish the goal.
Actually I like it here.
Hello Thai Sean, thankyou for that, but as I said I am not going away, and I will not ask anyone to go awaythough I may ask them to alter their manner. It wasn't the 'mind-reading' comment but the one about 'being a woman thing' and I'm afraid it got to me, and I got carried away. I have never asked, or suggested, that she go away, or not comment on anything. I will welcome any civil comment or post, and if I feel inclined I will reply. My blood pressure is not a problem, in fact it is normally low, and with the medication I am now on it is even lower. Sometimes when a nurse takes my blood pressure they will look at the results and go to take it again, thinking they made a mistake. So raising it would probably be a good thing. Oh, I did not make that comment about a Nun, as she did not reveal that till later. It seems that the moderators of this site are not paying much attention, as I asked for a post to be removed and nothing has happened yet.
Memories of things past.
Yes our original confrontation did come to mind, during this exchange. I can only hope that the outcome will be as good.
Thai is right. I won't say 'Surprise ! '
Hello April, Thai Sean is right about this, People with a conscious can be reached by pointing out their errors. People without a conscious will not be reached, no matter what you say. This whole problem involves people understanding what they have done wrong and changing their ways. So by going after them this way he can shame some into action, and if enough are moved to action the rest may follow suit so as not to look out of place. Kissing butt may just lull the ones we need to reach into complacency and inaction.
One-up's-manship.
There is one point that deserves an alternate view. If everyone believed that they had the best house, car, and comunity I don't think that there would be so much conflict. It's when people think that their neighbors or those in another town or country have nicer and better things that they become envious and decide that they want things that are just as good, or better, for themselves. This "Keeping up with the Joneses' is distructive to the individual, the comunity and the world when nations are engaged in this type of activity. I think you are correct that people think that they need to be better than others, but the problem is when they believe that they are not, and start doing something about it.
Apologizes Offered.
To Whom it may Concern, I have recently made several post's on this site that were inappropriate and unnacceptable. I wish to apologize to any member who may have been offended and in particular to the member to whom they were directed. I have daughters and grand-daughters and over the years I have supported and encouraged my daughters in whatever activity or interest they might pursue, and I advise my son to do the same for my grand-daughters. When confronted with a post that, to me, implied some female superiority I over-reacted and spoke out of anger, but not responding to, or accepting, such a statement would open the way for male chauvinists to make counter claims of male superiority, which I cannot accept. Either extreme view must be opposed for accepting one will allow expression of the other. I firmly support the idea of gender and racial social equality. Certainly there are talents and abilities where women are better than men, and talents and abilities where men are better than women, but there are far more that are shared equally, not only by men and women but by all races of human beings. I sincerely regret several entries that I have made but I cannot undo, or make them go away. I will continue to monitor this site and will contribute as I see fit, with more restraint than in the recent past. . Please accept this statement for what it is, my true and honest feelings in this matter.
Cautionary Tales.
Hello Samsara, Thankyou, I am very grateful for your kindness. I have printed out this exchange and am going to post it near my computer to be, as you say, 'an example for what not to do'. I see a big heart working in you as well, but in my case there is a bit of physical reality. Two years ago in January I developed pnemonia and in the course of examination was diagnosed with congestive heart failure and an enlarged heart, (just a little joke) I am much better now. I have had a life-long struggle with anger and a bad temper. Many years ago I studied Karate and the physical activity along with the philosophical and spiritual aspect helped a lot. Unfortunatly here in the west the emphasis is on the physical almost to the exclusion of the others. More recently I spend a lot of time cutting and splitting firewood, but since October this activity is not avalable, I hope to get back into the swing of things by this coming October. Let us continue to post with the clear understanding that different people have different ideas and beliefs, when there are differences let us ask for clarification and if necessary we can agree to disagree. Perhaps we can become a different kind of example for others.
I liked that.
OK, that is funny, the first time I went to the site from your other link I thought it was for a real mfg. company and came back. when I got there the 2nd time i started reading and realized what it was. Thankyou. I have also listened to a few pieces of her poetry, and one 'Men' sounds like a retread of what men say women try to do to them. Others are slightly too obscure at first listen, but I will keep trying when I have time. What do you think of my suggestions?
Wait and see.
Many Philosophers are not well regarded or accepted in their own time, many are not understood till long after their death. The same is true of artists and some scientists, how many times has an artist's work not been highly regarded till after they are gone, Van Gogh comes to mind. Alfred Wegner proposed the theory of Plate Tectonics in 1912 but it was not until 30 years after his death the evidence was found to support his ideas. Philosophers usually only have a small following during their lifetime, Socretes was condemed and put to death by the society in which he lived. Extremely fortunate is the philosopher, artist and sometimes scientist who is recognized during their lifetime. If you want to know who the great philosophers of today are, stick arround for a few hundred years, and see who's work is well regarded then.
If you insist.
Hello 'Behappy the Cynic' you have an interesting take on belief, but I must disagree. After some consideration and talking with others I will say that what I believe is not based on the ruminations of my unconscienc or subconscienc and I would hardly describe those results as logical. The subconscience is the residence of dreams and fantisy and only occasionally does a logical process reside there. My beliefs are based on due consideration of the information that I posess, including feelings and other things less substantial. My beliefs are not the passive result of mental processes that I do not control, those images and ideas are not held to, without concious and logical verification. I also cannot abide your definition of faith, I would suspect that is your cynical side coming out. As far as 'Santa Claus' it is first useful to define what you mean by 'Santa Claus' before you decide if you believe or not. I do not 'pretend' to believe in anything.
Sholders.
This is true but it is also true that there has been a constant stream of philosophers from the begining, and without this constant history and maintenance of the philosophical dialogue, greatness would not arise. For genius often can see far because they are standing on the sholders of Giants. Only a fool would fail to acknowledge his predecessors who laid the foundation and built the framework of the knowledge he now pursues. All great men know from whence they came.
It's worht a try.
What you could do is to move back to the U.S. with a good title like "Thailand Sean purveyor of wisdom from the east" and there is bound to be a following who will fawn on your every word. There are those in America who will buy into almost anything, and it is your duty to help keep them entertained, and spending their money. But the trick is to publish a lot while you are popular and make a lot of money with things like 'Thai Sean's guide to eastern Christmas giving'. Then when it all settles down you would have enough money to self publish all of your serious work. Of course it could all go bust right away and you would be back in Thailand fishing, no worse off than you are now.
Holliday Treats.
Yes and I have also heard that Halloween was a conspiricy by the candy companies to promote the excess and unnecessary consumption of sweets. In business terms these efforts, and those at Christmas, Easter and other holidays, would be applauded as a great success of advertizing and promotion, and it must be considered that the more money that is changing hands and in circulation, the more opportunity for each member of society to get some. I know that there is a lot of useless junk but I have also seen a lot of useful items and occasionally a clever educational toy or two. It must also be considered that all that 'Useless Junk' represents jobs and income for many in manufacturing, transportation, and sales, and just how many jobs are there, with modern manufacturing techniques, for essential necessities. There are a lot of industries that slow down or stop in the winter months and seasonal employment is welcome to many. I have heard that about suicides at christmas but there are many other factors than just the holliday, Winter itself can be depressing. I'm sure that Santa would be willing to help the poor and lonely but how much comfort would one day a year be, I think it would be more useful for the rest of us to take care of these people since we are arround 365 days a year, not just one. Every year at Thanksgiving and Christmas there is a big fuss in the media about the shelters and special Holliday meals, but two meals a year is not going to carry these poor homeless people for a year, The shelters are there 365 days a year, and if you are concerned about these people, then you should be too.
Not Really.
No, I think you are wrong here, some of us are a LOT confused. I think you will also find that a little arrogance goes a long way, and is not well received here. If Philosophy is the love of wisdon and knowledge, then all who ask a question and seek knowledge are philosophers, some in a more practical sense, some in a more ethereal sense. Of course there are those with noble and haughty aspirations who look down their noses at the rest of us with more pragmatic goals, but we are philosophers all, even Thai Sean. I sn't the study of philosophy somewhat esotaric and a philosophy in itself? There are very few original ideas, most if not all have been proposed and debated before, don't be fooled by the language and details, the beliefs have all been done before. Not all philosophy has been confined to the Ivory Tower, only by those who think they are better than everyone else. Real philosophy has been out on the street corner, in coffee houses and taverns, or in studios where musicians and poets preform their works. Not all music is philosophy, unless your philosophy is the "Quest for more money" most musicians and other artists do 'Bread and Butter' works that will sell to the masses. The few who bare their souls are not usually well received, not well understood, and do not sell well. You are confusing Profit with Prophet or Philosopher. - - - - Do you know what you get if you play a country and westeern song backwards? - - - - - - - - ? - - give up ? - - You get out of Jail, your pickup truck starts and runs, your girlfriend comes back, and your Mom bakes you an apple pie. Thats some good philosophy.
Good Point.
when I first read this question I thought of athtetic competition because I have children and grand children who are, or were involved in sports. You are correct that corporate or business competition is much more distructive to our economy and therefore our lives. We should join forces as I would submit that the distructive, competitive attitudes present in business and corporations are first taught to our youth in sports and athletic programs where winning is everything. Just look at the rabid behavior that some parents demonstrate to their children during these events. The kids are there to have fun, but the parents and coaches are teaching a much different lesson. I have seen business deals where some are so predatory that they are not happy unless the other party is thrown for a financial loss to make the deal, not healthy for anyone. Just like sports where children are taught that the other team must loose so that our children can be succesful.
I think we agree?
Hello Mani X, after reviewing the last few posts on this thread I believe that we are saying the same thing but from different perspectives and with different emphasis. I agree that there are musicians and other artists who put themselves into their art expressing thier philosophy and bareing their soul, so to speak. I am not as familiar with these artists as you seem to be. I am familiar (not completely by choice) with the performers who write and produce 'for the money'. These people are all over the TV, Radio, and on concert tours, because they write to sell. I would guess that the 'Real Artists' are more of a local phenomena with a small local following, and because they do not 'write to sell' it is more difficult to achieve comercial success. Please do not think that I would insult a real artist who creates out of their feelings and creates true art, my criticism was aimed at those comercial performers who flood the market with dross. My real interest is in classical music and so it is difficult for me to appreciate or understand most of the modern work. There is no need to apologize for being passonate about what you believe, and I rarely get angrey about this forum. Usually when I post like that I am trying to get things stired up, but sometinmes not in fun. Caps Lock is understood, I do the same thing. On this site we only have the words on a screen and it is sometimes difficult to convey true meanings without inflection and tone of voice, I can hear in my own head how I am saying something but I can't type it. Typing harder does nothing to emphasize the point it just rattles my keyboard, and typing slower does not help the other person to understand. Perhaps you could read with a more open mind and a bit of contemplation as your first impression may not be exactly correct. Keep posting, I'll be here.
2 eyes, 2 ears, 1 mouth.
There is an old saying about people having two ears and one mouth, roughly we should listen twice and talk once. How many people just talk away, flapping their gums, as if they like the sound of their own voice. They make so much noise that they can't hear anyone else, as if they think no-one else has anything to say. Just as people need to hear others they also need to see the world as it is. Too many are deaf and blind to anything except what is in their own heads.
Artistic understanding.
The first line of your post reminded me of something I read by one of my favorite writers, Issac Asimov. He wrote that once he found out about a college course on Science Fiction and decided to attend some of the classes. During one of the lectures the professor was describing to the class the meaning of the story and motivation of the author. When Issac spoke up and said that the professor had got it wrong, he was challenged and Issac revieled that he had written the story, whereupon the professor said, 'What makes you think you know anything about it you are only the author.' The professor believed that only an expert could devine the true meaning and motivation behind the story and the author was only a dumb cypher who only wrote without understanding. I think that you are correct that only the author or artist can know the true meaning and motivation of the work. The experts and critics can only intrepret relative to their own prejudice and bias, which usually does not conform to that of the artist. The critic who does not create can have no empathy or understanding of the creative process and therefore can only give a superficial and shallow assessment of a work.
Lessons to be unlearned.
Your 2nd section brought up the point that some things taught in the public school program will need to be unlearned for a person to be sucessful as an individual. I would like to cite 2 cases from my own experience. My older daughter did well in public school but once we were discussing things that had been covered in one of her classes. I started to explain that there was more to the subject than what she was saying, she in turn insisted that according to the teacher this was the sum total of what was known. I can understand the teachers need to limit the discussion and forestall endless questioning and 'what if's' but the presentation eliminated, for some, the possibility of further exploration of the subject. Unfortunatly I cannot now remember the topic but it was something with wich I was familiar. In my own educational and professional experience I learned drafting in a teacher education program and then years later worked as a draftsman in an industrial plant. Much of the basics were appliciable but many procedures taught in the educational program were contrary to industrial practice. The professors and educators had revised and altered the curiculum to better suit the needs of teaching, than the needs of the industry where it was used. This brings me to a hypothisis about the bodies of knowledge that are used in life and business, and those same subjects as taught in the public schools. I think it is important to understand how long a subject has been incorporated into the schools and taught by educators rather than those working in the trade. I would suggest that the longer the two have been seperated the further the schools will stray from the trade. Drafting has apparently been seperated a very long time but something like Information Technoliogy is still very close and may still be taught by those in the trade and not by educators many generations removed from actual practice. Along those same lines I took physics in High School and the teacher was an older man who I found out later had learned physics many years before and never went back to update the knowledge he was presenting. He made one statement that I knew was clearly wrong which caused me to doubt everything else he said. Many areas of knowledge are moving very quickly and the teacher must either keep up or at least acknowledge that there is much more than they have time to present. Any educational system can be the means of indoctrination to a particular ideology, my younger daughter refused to, in her words, "be pressed into a mold" of a good little student and was successfully home schooled her last year.
Momentary Priorities.
This is true, but sometimes you don't know that the bridge is out till you are hurtling over the edge into the abyss, and then your thoughts are If or when you will get out. Posting warning signs may be a worthwhile aspiration, but at that point survival may be higher on your list of priorities. You could always mention the posting of warning signs while making your 911 call.
Welcome Aboard.
Thankyou, it's good to see someone state that idea so clearly. Some on this site seem to think that Terrorists and these Radical Militant Governments are just reasonable people who want attention. Also good to see another supporter of Civilian Nuclear Power, Where were you during T.M.I. ? Do you know that Nuclear Power used for propultion in the Navy has been proven quite safe and reliable, just expensive.
Talk is cheap, Action is costly
NO, everyone who has Nuks talks about using them, but only one country ever has, and after that everyone has been too afraid to. Everyone who has weapons talks about using them, it's called 'Saber Rattling' and it has been done through-out history. So far everyone who has Nuks has been responsable enough to not use them. But a country who trains people to strap bombs to themselves and kill a lot of others is not responsable and should not have that capability. If you advocate giving them nuclear capability then you must bear the blame for what happens.
Nuke knowledge for all.
Not necessarily, anyone can go online and learn how to build a nuclear bomb, but only a nation with enough resources can finish it. I could start it myself but I wouldn't live long enough to get it even started right. The information is out there, just don't expect to survive the attempt, and it won't be government agents or police who will stop you.
Alternate Viewpoint?
I must disagree with you on this, the US used the Nuclear Bomb 2 times in 1945 and it has not been used in 64 years, by anyone, in spite of the incredable stockpiles that exist. I think that demonstrates a considerable amount of restraint and responsability by everyone who now has them. Depleated uranium is part of a weapons system used to destroy enemy missiles and is still in use, but not against Human targets, there is not a good enough radar target to track. Depleated uranium is toxic, but then so is lead, I don't think that any projectile passing into or thru your body would be particularly good for your health. Please keep posting your criticizm of the US, it's interesting to hear what an outsider thinks.
Sculpture in Wood?
Hello, You are talking about sculptures I thought I would throw this in. I have done what may be considered sculptures but not of Mythological images, but more iconic of the 20th century. http://www.toytrains1.com/ed-greenberg-mar-2003.htm Shows models of 'O' gauge ships that I built and were bought by the man in Photo 45 (in the blue 'T' shirt with the blue and black plaid flanel shirt over). Photo's 9, 12, 19, 20, 41, 43, show the models. (sorry they are not numbered, you need to count as you scroll down). Many people express their art in different forms, and many (who use marble or oils) will look down their noses at those who work in a more pedrestian medium. There is another site 'Raritan valley hirailers' that show more photos but it is not very reliable. these are just 2 of the 6 or more that I have sold over the years plus, tugs, barges, tow boats, and car floats. Several more were lost in the fire as well as wooden toys along the same lines. I hope to be back to work by this fall.
More model boats.
Here's another one, photo 2, 4, and 5. from the top.http://www.geocities.com/raritanvalleyhirailers/
Balance of Nature.
There is a portion of this answer that bears further dialogue and clarification. In nature all species live in a balance that is somewhat cyclical, plants grow, herbivores live on plant life, carnivores feed on other animals. When climate conditions are bad, plants decline, as do plant eaters and predators. In good weather the reverse is true. In the eastern USA large predators have been eliminated and there is no natural limit to the growth of some species, such as the White Tail Deer, (Bambies), so hunting has been instituted to control the population. Some see this as 'Sport Killing' and condem it, but they are short-sighted and do not understand that now man is the dominate predator and as such must control this population of animals and likewise for other species. I just wanted to clarify that what some see as killing for sport is a necessary part of the balance of nature. The balance that men has disrupted is now left for man to restore and maintain
Correct again April.
I'm sorry, in reflection I should not have blamed the media, The media only feed the masses (the majority) what it wants. The masses want glamor, sound bites, photo ops, glitz, popularity. Credentials and qualifications are none of these, The 'dumbing down' of the masses, means the 'dumbing down' of the media, and the dumbing down of government. The masses get the government they diserve, and the rest of us are stuck with it. Rather than the old idea of a few bad ones giving everyone a bad name, it's like the joke "95% of the lawyers are giving the rest of them a bad name.
I'm stalling, sort of.
Hello April, I don't have answers to your 5 questions, the first one almost, but I am going to post this here instead, as there is a similar principle. - - - - The top of this page says 'Dropping Knowledge' and is described as the "Table of Free voices", I really question the validity of that. This forum was initiated to collect 100 questions to present to 112 participants at a round 'Table of Free voices' on Sept 9 06. I participated in that selection process and even posted some questions (that did not get picked). The voting of members resulted in 500 questions that were reduced to 100. Another member asked how some questions that were so poor could have been selected, I answered that the people who posted the thoughtless and inane questions were the same people who were voting. Another member refered to the 112 as so many 'brilliant minds', but after reviewing most of the answers given (I also watched the live feed on my computer) I concluded that many of the answers were thoughtless liberal knee-jerk reactions and some of the participants were just there for the camera (photo op), in case this thing became popular. Well they lost that bet. The participants were expected to answer the 100 questions cold without preperation. If the organizers had wanted a real meaningful forum the participants would have been given the questions to review and form a proper answer. Neither the table nor the voices were free, they were constricted by the selection of some superficial and shallow questions, and by the organizers in not having an advance preview. There was one bright spot, the beautiful woman who read the questions conducted herself with dignity and courtesy to all. One of the participants was late and they graciously waited for him, I think he was hungover from the night before.
Trevor went on the potty !
Hello April, there have been a few dissapointsments for me on this site, primarily in the level of participation. If there were more contributors there might be more variety or at least less of a wait between posts. I think I expected that there would be 100's of contributors and 1,000's of readers with myself being a minor contributor on the edges of the threads, I never expected to be the contributor with the largest number of posts. I think the original objective was to provide a global forum and I believe that has been achieved, looking at the locations of those who are posting, but the 3 primaries are all originally from the US. But 3 regulars, several occasional and a few neubies doesn't seem to be very many in light of 6.7 billion world population even if 10% or less have inernet access, we are hardly being noticed. Our dialogue here is important and sometimes profound but what good is it if no-one else looks at it. However I must point out that my dissapointment cannot be too great as I am still here, or is that obstinance, inertia, or a bad habit? I keep coming back and I find something interesting and stimulating. I will probably keep posting till they shut it down or there is no-one else posting, but then I could always use it as an internet diary and post all the interesting things that Treavor does as he grows up. Wouldn't that be a sad end for such a nobel endevor? But then the growth of a child may be the most profound thing of all.
possibilities?
If there were 100's of contributors perhaps there would be enough financial contributors that there would be a means of scrolling back through the questions and comments beyond 10 posts. We may never know. I would not object to a few more regular entries I just don't like the hit-and-runs with no come backs. I'll be here, I'm not going away.
All is not fair.
No, many of the actions of the Nazi war criminals were in contradiction of treaties and conventions of war agreed to by the German government, and many of the atrocities were against civilian non-combatants and against any international law, that the government of the time condoned those acts does not excuse the crimes. the monsters who commited those acts were not acting in acordance with any accepted international law. They were justifiably tried and exicuted for war crimes. There were and are laws, treaties, and conventions that deliniate what is acceptable and not.
I must Disagree.
Sorry but God is the only 'Absolute Truth' and is largly unknowable, The Bible and other 'Holy Writings' were transcribed from a man to a man and are full of inaccuracies and errors through misunderstanding and outright lies. I recently heard Salman Rushdie read an excerpt from his 'Satanic Verses', it was very interesting. And since the original writing Man has sucesfully corrupted and altered the text's to be unrecognizable. Only the Koran is unaltered but has been misinterpreted by many, the question is was it the truth from the begining?
Seriously Writing.
Yes but serious takes a lot of effort, and sometimes I'm just too tired to think, so I just throw out a line either a joke or nasty just to see if anyone is there. You have been very reliable, and please take that as a complement. I hope my serious side was acceptable.
Good News.
Sorry for the delay but we had a real problem finding a builder. Demolition is done and excavation has started. I'm ready for our new house.
Eye Contact?
I do not think that others are troubled by their own image, there is a little narcissism in all of us. When I was teaching I had a male student with a sister and there was a strong resembelance between them, they were particulary unactractive and yet they each thought the other was the most actractive student in the school. I would sugest that eye contact, or lack of, is more disturbing since reflecting glasses hide your eyes and they cannot see where you are looking. People like to know that you are paying attention when they are speaking to you. If you saw the movie 'Space Balls' there was a sequence where President Skroob demands that Dark Helmet keep his visor up while they are speaking.
Sweet Dreams?
Stars shining bright above you, Sweet dreams that leave all worries behind you, But in your dreams whatever they be, Dream a little dream of me.
Ask the right question.
I believe that the difficulty of your search was a bit of 'Ivory tower' reasoning , and over thinking the question. By being too specific and adding too much information in your request you were swamped with inapropriate results, mostly comercial, and responding to 'Solar' in your search. When I typed 'DIY' in the search the first sites were for 'Do it Yourself' home improvment projects which could then be searched for the specific project. Searching 'solar shades' or 'awnings' gave similar results, but 'schematics' just complicated the search. The problem was not with the search engine, it gave you what you asked for, the problem was not asking for the right thing. There is another difficulty in that the internet is free, open to all, and largely unregulated. Anyone can post anything, and for much there is no references to verify what is posted. The 'information superhighway', in many cases has become a toll road, and in others is a flight of fantasy, and in all cases has been jammed to the breaking point.
An addiction.
I would think that anyone seriously advocating a cause would be more interested in results than conflict or antagonism. One who is genuinly interested would politely explain the correct terminology and why it is prefered, and try to persuade you to their way of thinking. Those who are loud and in your face are probably more interested in waving banners, shouting slogans, confrontation, and demonstrating. I read somewhere that some people can become addicted to adrenalin. Some who are obsessed about running or other physical activity may suffer this addiction. Certainly a confrontation or a demonstration that is opposed by the police would produce an adrenalin rush. I would suggest that these people will be strong supporters as long as there is enough excitement to meet their needs. Once progress has been made and things settle down They will be off looking for another cause to get their 'fix'. At that point the dedicated supporters will continue to advance the cause, and the fanatics will be gone.
Zen of Sarcacm.
Off the internet, - - "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them you're a mile away and you have their shoes."
I believe you.
I did not think that you were not sincere, but semantics does play a large part in all aspects of dialogue, including Philosophy. Consistant meanings and usage of words and phrases is critical to clear understanding between people and if uniformity is not present meaningful dialogue is not possable. I liked your phrasing and word usage, very colorful and somewhat poetic and I believe that I got the meaning of what you were saying. Not all are so careful in how they say what they say. I agree with you that for some the written word is the only way they can truly express themselves. They pour out their soul onto the page in the hope that it will not be lost into oblivion. I can only hope that the internet has not become the 'black hole' of oblivion for our thoughts and imaginings.
No, not at all.
No I am not offended and I too am annoyed by people who carry on loud cell phone conversations in public, but I guess I am not going to let rude and inconsiderate people control how I live and act. I usually carry on as if they were not there, to bad if they are disturbed, but I am not intentionally rude to them. When I read your post I thought of this and tried to inject a bit of humor. In a way I feel sorry for people like the person you encountered in the resturant as they are so wrapped up in their own affairs and importance that they fail to see how interesting others can be, and how much they are missing by not paying attention to what is happening around them. They may someday realize what they have been missing or they may die never knowing how much they have not seen. Understand that my attempts at humor are not to make light of the subject but to bring a smile while you contemplate a serious thought. I do try to imagine another persons point of view to understand their actions, whether I like them or not.
Double Duty.
A pane of glass can be either, during the day we see our reflection, and at night, if the lights are on, we can see into the building. So it is with people who can look out and observe others or can look within to find themselves.
More Possibilities.
Thought I would add after trying it out, there are 3 categories to check, Questions, Answers, and Comments, leaving any one of those checked will give a lot of results to look at. As April said, Questions - 18,587 Answers - 15,249 Comments - 3,933. Each of these categories can be sorted by 'Type' 'User' and I'm not sure how that workes, 'Activity' 'Date' 'and 'Rating', which seam to be obvious. There are also several other ways to search even questions posted on a certain date. Have fun looking.
More Thought, Less Surprise.
Welcome back 'Mani X' it seems that being offensive is back in fashion, yes it is about free will and choice but you fail to say what those choices are. Perhaps you don't know and are just throwing out some random s__t to try and sound knowing. April and I have already stated some of those choices, people are living longer and are having more children than the Earth can support. When I first read this question it seemed to me that it refered to overpopulation, if you have a different understanding I'd like to hear it. It seems that you have chosen to be rude and failed to understand the questuion or the answers, and given a vague and meaningless answer in their place. If you have something worthwhile to say let's hear it. Most of the worlds problems come back to too many people, pollution, depletion of resources, wars, all come from too many people fighting for limited resources, and many more are having more children than the planet can support. It seems that Mani X is the only one here with a problem, perhaps he is one of the 'excess population'. Perhaps some of us prefer a more polite and thoughtful post, except when answering those with no manners or tact.
Oh No, not another Rambeling Rant.
Just so you know I seldom post anything without first giving it some thought and analyzing the entry that prompted my reply. I believe that we may agree to disagree on some poiints, and thats OK, as long as we take the time to understand what those points are. Just for the record I did not call you 'Stupid' I do not equate lack of information, or being misinformed, or a difference of opinion, with stupidity. One thing that I take issue with is people who accuse me of saying something that I did not, and I am sorry if you infered that from my post. If my answers seem easy, that is intentional as I am not here to write a book (at least that was not my original intention) but to give brief answers to complicated questions and that sometimes means breaking it down to the most basic level. I agree that questions and answers are not simple right and wrong but a long rambeling post will not get read. - - - On another topic, with the state of the world today, I believe that overpopulation is a problem and people who have a lot of children (not adopted) should feel guilty for contributing to the problem. Since Humans no longer have predators to control the population like animals in a natural setting, humans must learn to control their own numbers, as human hunting controls the population of some wild species where there are no other predators. No I am not proposing a hunting season on people, but birth control would be an option. Overpopulation contributes to pollution, use of resources, and global warming. Do you know I read an estimate several years ago that of all the Human beings who have ever lived on the Earth 25% were alive at that time and that may be higher today, think about that 25%. Early Humans no matter how far back you want to start counting were just a drop in the bucket of Human population. Tell me how that can't be a problem? - - - You asked if I believe in God? Have you taken the time to look at my previous entries, I have made several on that subject, and if they seem contradictory remember that each may have been answering a different question and required a different perspective. I have looked at all of your posts just to understand your point of view, have you looked at any of mine? I know there are a lot, mostly dross, but a few worth looking at and always in the context of the thread. Yes I do believe in God, but not necessarily in the 'Sunday School' - 'Fairy Tale' version, I don't feel adequate to define God for others, mostly I just accept that God exists. - - - And in retrospect my references to manners and tact were not directed at you but at other previous users, sorry if that was not clear, I tend to get carried away and stick things in where they don't belong.
Show me the money !
Neither God nor religion has anything to fear, but Religious leaders greatest fear is the person who can read and think for themselves. Leaders of churches rely on the ignorance of members to keep them in line and contributing to the wealth of the church. Religion has become rampant and corrupted to the advancement of the wealth and control of the church. Being religious does not always promote a relationship with God.
Must be in context.
"Go forth and multiply" was a command given to all living things that was tempered with "replentish the Earth", given at a time when the Earth was devoid of life. It was not a command to overpopulate the Earth with people and over-run and drive out all other living things. We are also commanded to be stewards of the earth, to take care of it, not to destroy it, and drive all other life to extinction. Pollution, distruction of the environment, and overpopulation are counter to any command given by God, and this verse taken out of context is not a justification for the human population to grow without limits. Humans are supposed to have the ability to reason and control their actions unlike other animals that will breed out of control when limits are removed. Wild animals will quickly overpopulate and decimate an environment without the controls of predation and limited food supply. In this case Humans are acting more like unreasoning thoughtless animals, with overpopulation and the distruction of the environment, than like rational beings.
What about High's and Low's
It is possable for a population to reach an equilibrium based on food supply, but predation is an essential factor in a natural system to maintain this ballance. Even so it is not a steady state but is cyclic in nature with food supply and population rising and falling over time. Even if humanity could some-how regulate supply and assure adequate distribution, the population would still rise and fall. At the low point food prices would be low, farmers would be crying poor and politicians would be calling for subsidies and aid to help. when the population rises above the target level the "Fly in the Ointement" would be those same whiny liberal poiticians screaming that "we need to help these people" by increasing food supply, and there would go your population control. It would take extreme fortitude to resist the call and hold food supply at the intended level in the face of public and political outcry for more food. when people are hungry and have starving children to feed they don't care if todays meal will destroy the earth tomorrow. likewise politicians see that feeding the hungry and handing out welfare and subsidies will gain votes today, and don't care if it destroys the world tomorrow as long as they are in office when it happens.
Don't you know me better by now?
I was hoping that the previous post was ment facetiously, and I was pointing out some of the difficulties in implementing such a policy. I looked at the 'Pan Earth' site by Russell Hopfenberg and it appeared to be a "Publish or Perish" by an academic, where getting the name in print is more important than content. The proposal that food production would greatly precede demand is untenable, production is always in response to demand, and while there is occasionally speculation, more than 200% is unrealistic and probably fiction. It is possable that they are usinbg potential production and presenting it as actual production, not quite accurate. If these figures were true, where is all the surplus food? Another flaw in that argument is that if limited food supply will automatically limit population how is it that there are large areas of the world with little food and large and growing populations. There have been many reports of populations where there is no food with the resulting famine and starvation, or perhaps this is the mechanism that brings the numbers back in line. Population control via food control may work hypothetically but is wouldn't be pretty. And there would always be the 'Goody-two-shoes' who will want to help the poor unfortunates and spoil the programe. Population control via education and birth control would be more effective in the long run and food supply would adjust automaticaly as supply would rise and fall to meet the demand. Someday the world may have it's fill of population control by war, violence, disease, and starvation, and devise a means of voluntarily controling it's own numbers. Food control does not seem like a viable solution. If supply limits are set and the population increses to excede the supply, what is to stop the individual from growing his own food? Oh well there goes the Planet!
I did it on purpose.
I especially like the phrase "Love is an intentional act". A relationship may start with feelings and emotion but when it becomes intentional it has the best chance of lasting.
Seems like I'm an open book.
It's "If You Don't Know Me By Now, You Will Never Never Never Know Me" recorder by Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes. But I did like your paraphrasing. Actually with as much as I have posted it shouldn't be hard to know something about me, or maybe a lot.
Yes-ish? A bit indecisive?
Yes but rather than 'interpret and use' I would say 'Corrupt and distort', not as polite but probably more accurate.
Thankyou.
My intent was not to correct or counter your post but to enhance and emphasize it.
Welcome back.
Some toast and bacon works for me, but hold the mayo, my wife adds a slice of onion.
Be still and listen?
Please tell me that you do not do other things that would distract you from the show. Watching the sunset and listening to the day become night is one of the two best experiences I can think of. Sunrise is the same show in reverse, or is the sunset the reverse of the sunrise? Sunrise, sunset, following each other as do the days and seasons, Please don't get so busy that you miss living.
Transparency.
Thankyou, your comments got me thinking about organizations and new or prospective members. The attitude of a group runs the gamut of going out of their way to show that the group is good enough for the person to join, to an exclusive club who are only interested in determining if the prospective member is up to their standards. Certainly these are the extremes with most falling somewhere in the middle. In the former the ideals and goals ar easy to discover and the activities will be an open book, most benevolent societies would be like this. In the latter the organizations reputation will "Speak for itself" and little or no effort will be made to reveal the goals and practices, in fact most of the activity will be directed by one or more "inner Circles" and new members will be expected to blindly follow the guidance and instructions of the established leaders, most political parties would be in this category. Basicly if you cannot easily discover what is going on it would be best to avoid joining. Of course any orgazization could be a 'front' for some other operation and the group would just be a cover for some illegal or subversive activity. Really makes you feel good about our society, Doesn't it?
And now to continue.
Trancending duality to a state of non-duality is in itself dualistic. Either you are in a dualistic state or you are in a non-dualistic state, which is not the point at all. Trancendance should bring you to a state of universality that encompasses everything and nothing, being and non-being, dualism and non-dualism. Trancendance should put you in touch with everything and nothing, but then that which is inexpressable cannot be stated? OH, the book is "Thou art That" - Transforming Religious Metaphor, - Joseph Campbell.
What Glitch?
I'm not sure if it is a glitch, or just occasionally shutting down for lack of interest.
A couple Asprin may help.
Unfortunatly the obvious is only visible to those who can see, but not to the blind masses. Stating the obvious truth is sometimes like beating your head against a wall, it feels so much better when you stop.
Please Coutinue.
Yes, but I do not think you would feel very good if your heart stopped beating.
Your Welcome.
It is said that 'The Truth will set you Free', but then 'Ignorance is Bliss. So which do you want freedom or happiness. I know you want both, you want everything. "I WANT IT ALL, AND I WANT IT NOW ! !
Round About.
Sometimes a goal requires a circuitous path to achieve. A rather pedestrian example is the TV show 'Extreme Makeover Home Editiion'. The goal of the family is to have a better home. They have a house that has problems. In the course of the program the old house is demolished. The family is farther from the goal than before. Now they have nothing where before they had a house, but demolition removed obsticles that allowed them to move toward the goal, and in the end was the best path.
Mutual Benefit.
The difficulty in this dialogue is the complexity of the course of Human events. Most of the major Nations of the World are seeking peacful co-existence with other nations, at least according to their rhetoric, but the number of local conflicts and minor wars are thwarting that effort. So while the collective choice is for a world without war, there are individual or small group choices that are interfering with that course. Many small groups have a goal and then choose a course of action that is repugnant to the rest of the world, and so cut themselves off from the countries that have the political and military power to acheive their goals. They are taking a path of self interest where they may gain but others will loose. They may gain in the short term but in the long term they will fall short of the goal. There is a particular 'Game Theory' (and forgive me if I cannot remember the game or the details) that stated that when a player advanced by mutual benefit with another player he would advance farther than a player who advanced by causing a loss to another. (Chess is not that game, as mutual annihilation and the distruction of the opponent is the goal). But the affore mentioned game theory can be applied to international politics and the result is that if all nations sought not only their own benefit but also that of other nations all would advance farther than those who sought only their own advantage at the expense of others. So mutual benefit is desirable but distruction is not. So any nation or group whose goal is the distruction or elimination of others are bound to fail.
Demo?
Demolition was not part of the original plan, but a detour that took the family away from the path to a new path. So perhaps you are right we should be looking for a better path. 'Demolition of the Earth', not a bad ploy, we could build a 'B Ark' and send off a good portion of the excess population, which may avert the actual distruction. Perhaps the original contractor would be of some help.
Out of context?
The question referes to internet and computer connections, as in websites, but if it was a question it was poorly phrased. It sounded like a school assignment and the poster was looking for someone else to write his paper for him. It was not invalid, just not well stated, and perhaps not typical for this forum.
I've been reading your post's.
Hello April, I did not mean to upset you, making that comment I was thinking of myself and many other people in this society of 'instant gratification'. You are no more transparent than anyone else on this forum, and only as much as you choose. Since we can be anonomus we can say things that we may not otherwise admidt. For example my views on religion are somewhat unorthodox, and becoming more-so, and I would surely be criticized if I spoke them outloud in Church. - - - By the way, the new house is coming along, Roof is on, and they just finished drywall. I think the Living Room will be especially nice the celling is open to the room above, with a balcony all the way around. The opening is an irregular octogon, if I had the room it would have been regular. I am having the railing made at a local lumber mill, and I will be installing it myself. We are getting very excited to move into the new house.
Would it help to open it?
Yes I picked up a Websters 1955 New World Dictionary. Is my spelling so bad that I am still missing words that need corrected?
I'm listening.
You say you know the organization from the inside, give us some details. Who are the Elitist Bullies you refer to, if they were of the 112 of the round table, it may shed some light on the validity of their answers. Personally I thought most of them were publicity seekers, of little substance, only there to get their mug in front of a camera. You could also tell us in what capacity you are involved, as it might help to validate your comments, unless you are afraid to go from a 'whistle blower' to a victim. Remember, 'Keep your stick on the ice'.
Still listening.
It is not uncommon for workers at the lower levels of an organization to be poorly treated by those of the upper levels, but it is still unacceptable to mistreat fellow human beings. Authority and rank are no excuse to be rude or dismissive to others. However I would like your opinion of the woman who presented the questions to the round table. I believe her name is Hafsat Abiola and she appeared to be very gracious and dignified in her role as presenter. I would like to know what your impression was of her. Perhaps you should let go of the bitterness over that experience and move on to better things. Also Profanity is not necessary on this forum, and in fact, is not welcome, may lead to your being ignored.
Trueism
I've heard it said once that 'Anything you get for free, is worth what you pay for it'. This seems to validate that statement.
I Agree.
Yes but 'The Best things in life' that are free, are usually right in front of you or you have them already. I was refering to 'things' that you have to go to someone else to get, and I am not thinking of Love and affection, or companionship.
Ooohmmm?
Wow, no hostility intended, as I have stated before humor is dificult on this forum where the written word is all we have, I thought this was more obvious than others. I would hope that you are not this 'Thin Skinned' with all your responses. I believe that I understand your reference to 'Nothing' but I would suggest that starting from nothing, as in a 'blank canvas' or a 'blank slate' could lead to a lot of wasted time and effort. In almost any field of endevor starting from nothing often results in 'reinventing the wheel' and the wisdom is to seperate the 'Wheat from the Chaff', in that anyone who acclomplishes anything, will build on that which is worth-while from the past. However if you are refering to the Budhist concept of nothing or no-mind, there are some apparent contradictions that come to mind. But these are problems with trying to describe 'in language' that which cannot be stated. So that dialogue would end up going around in circles over nothing. Yes a blank canvas has much potential but do you really want to spend your time grinding pigment, mixing paint, making brushes, weaving and streaching canvas. Or do you want to get on with producing an image, to state a message? Oh, 'non existence' would accomplish 'nothing'. Absolute nothingness is the state that existed before the creation of the universe, a state of 'perfect symmetry'. We now exist in a state of 'broken symmetry' or duality. The goal of those who seek non-duality, or nothingness, is a state of 'perfect symmetry'.
All opinions are not equal.
If philosophy is the 'Love of Wisdom or Knowledge', then I must disagree, as many of the opinions that I have heard are the result of ignorance and stupidity. Everyone has an opinion but too few, take the time, or make the effort to verify the validity of the information on which the opinion is based. So much opinion is derived from a 'disdain of knowledge' and therefore is not philosophy.
Start at the begining.
Yes, and changing ourselves begins with the freedom to express ourselves, but all freedom comes with responsability, and the responsability it to base our ideas and opinions on knowledge and information that is valid and true. In this case when an idea is expressed and challenged, it will need to be re-evaluated and either defended or abandon. Sometimes an idea will need to be restated more clearly or in greater detail. If, on the other hand, the reasoning is faulty the idea will be abandon or altered. Changing ourselves can be growth in the positive.
Nice body? bad accent.
Wow, finally checked out the site. I'll bet it would get just as many views without sound or words. I would guess that there are better sites than this for porn. Oh-well watch what you like.
Another typo. :)
Sorry, that should be 'Funk and Wagnalls'. When I first heard that phrase on 'Laugh In' I didn't understand why it was funny, because I had grown up with a 'Funk and Wagnalls standard desk Dictionary'. Didn't see why it was used on a comedy show.
Very Interesting.
Yes that would include God, and you seem to be implying that God is extraterrestrial, there is no question of intelligence, but I would be curious to know where God lives, if not on the Earth. Certainly God is in the universe but so is the Earth, the Earth is part of the universe. There is a verse 'The kingdom of God is spread on the Earth and men do not see', usually the king lives in the kingdom, so this would suggest that God lives on the Earth. But God can live anywhere or everywhere if he chooses. Religions usually refer to the presence of God here with us, so I would suggest that God is Terrestrial and does not quallify in this case. I suppose that you could argue that because God existed before the Earth was formed, he could be considered extraterrestrial, but then all the atoms of your body and mine and in the whole solar system existed before, and could be considered extraterrestrial but I think that is streaching the point. I think that I will stick with the idea that God is with us and therefore terrestrial. If there is other intelligent life in the universe, could God not be with both or all at the same time, who is going to put limits on what God can do?
Correct.
Actually I do not think that you need to look very long or hard to find Americans that do not fear the government, but they are probably very quiet about it and just going about their business without making much fuss. The Americans that do fear the government are the ones protesting and making a lot of noise, and therefore attracting a lot of attention.
There is no free lunch.
Perhaps you should reconsider this, as many of the prophets paid very dearly for the wisdom they brought us, even when it was received the cost was high. Jesus paid the most of all because he had the most to loose, but he gave humanity the greatist gift of all. Anything that is worthwhile will be paid for by someone, and that of the most value will carry the highest cost.
Are you sure.
It seems that Humanity is still paying the price of a gift that could not be properly received. What about all the Wars, Violence, Disease and Suffering since then?
Sorry, I lost my script.
Yes even that which is complex shares traits and characteristics with others of like kind, but not all to the same degree or in the same proportions. Not all blonds have the exact same shade of hair, and not all have blue eyes. Not all Irish redheads have a bad temper, and as one of my neighbors found out, some Germans have a worse temper. Applying an archetype is a bit like stereotyping and while it may be useful in general terms, it is a dangereous path to start down. It is better to allow the individual to develop in front of you, perhaps taking comfort in what is expected and joy from the surprises. These would be better than dissapointment when someone does not live up to expectations. Archetypes may be somewhat useful in predicting probable behavior but when the prediction breaks down some latitude must be allowed for individual variations. Perhaps archetypes are best used in fiction or mythology wheree the character can be locked in, but reality seldom follows the script, people like to ad-lib.
Another Thought.
It would appear that Humanity has placed a value on this gift commensurate with the price that they paid. It seems that people have taken to heart the phrase 'Anything you get for free is worth what you pay for it'. The Religions based on the messages you refered to and the other world religions have all stressed Peace and Love of your fellow man, but I do not see much evidence that people are paying much heed to that message. They have received a free gift and place little value on it.
There is still much to see here.
I would ask that you stay and continue to contribute, even though good posts will not displace the poor ones, there will at least be something worth looking at. To leave would be to abandon the site to the dross. Even if I dissagree an intelligent debate is better than crude obcenities. I also think that this site is better now, than when I posted those comments.
I'll try to be nicer.
I come to this site for dialogue and an excange of ideas, I do not appreciate those who seem to be condecending to share their wisdom with us lesser mortals. I have reviewed many of Gonarthouses entries and some are good, most are ordinary, and some are not worth looking at. Her second book seems to be mostly questions from this site, and while she names the poster she does not acknowledge the site itself. It also appears that much of her material in her answers is borrowed without naming the source. Perhaps I have been a bit harsh but I do not appreciate 'hit-and-run'. I expect that those who post on this forum will be willing to reply to questions, comments, and criticism. To post and abandon the site is in poor taste and certainly not conducive to dialogue. If she were to reply to posts I might reconsider but in her absence I do not think very highly of her contributions.
A black Hole is really something!
It is a strong possibility that a Black Hole is not 'Nothing, There is a better chance that it is a great deal of 'something'. The Name 'Black Hole' is unfortunate because many define an object or person by the name. It is black because no light comes out of it, and it is called a hole because everything that gets near goes in but nothing comes out, so far not even information. The best evidence for a large mass is that there is a large gravity associated with a Black Hole and gravity is a result of mass. In a black Hole the force of gravity is so high that matter is compressed very tightly together so that a lot of mass can occupy a relatively small space. Again a Black Hole is not, Nothing.
One mile north of the North Pole.
Talking about 'before the Big Bang', is something like asking what is 'beyond the edge of the universe'. We have no information of anything before the Big Bang. All the Time, Space, Matter, and Energy, of this Universe was created at that instant. It is possable that Universes are cyclic and there was another that ended at the instant this one begain, but there is no way to know. It is also possible that there was nothing before the big Bang, a concept known as 'Vacuum Genesis'. Everything was created out of nothing, perfect symmetry was broken and became asymmetrical, non-duality became duality. In a related topic, some have asked what lies beyond the edge of the Universe, and the answer, again, is nothing. The Universe is finite but unbounded, It is of a limited size and even though it seems very big and we cannot see all of it, there is only so much of it. There is nothing beyone the edge because there is no edge, no boundry where the Universe ends. Even if you could assign a volume to the Universe and ask what is beyond that volume there is nothing. There is no empty space to fly through, no empty viod, No time, matter or energy. It would not even be possable to say that time has stopped because time would not exist. If all this seems counterintuitive, you are correct, these are concepts that are outside the realm of our three dimentional, temporal experience.
This is really funny, sad.
What is Funny is that you seem to think that since you have posted a question, that just because you posred it, you have some say whether it is debated or not. Unless you have some valid reason to do so, the moderators will not remove it. This question will remain instated and anyone and everyone who wants to can carry on the thread. Your only real option is to participate or not, and neither you, nor me, nor anyone else, has any athority to tell someone not to post, except the moderators, who may block a user if they could figure out how to do it. If you think that members would leave the question alone out of courtesy? I can't believe that you are that naive.
Slippery Subject.
There is also the problem of growth and development. Not only can an individual display several archetypes, and can switch from one to another, but they can grow and change as circumstances change. One of the fallicies of Psychiatry is in trying ot assign a set of characteristics to a person and expect them to consistently stay within those limits. Sort of like trying to nail Jello to a wall
Why did they write it like that?
Yes and it reminds me of a conversation many years ago, a co-worker was complaining about the use of the term 'Xmas' on Christmas cards and other places. His complaint was that people were trying to take 'Christ' out of Christmas by substituting 'X' for his name. However it is common Christian practice to use 'X' to represent Christ, and so it was not removing him just an alternate spelling. I was hoping to get a response from Gonarthouse, but apart from hawking her books she seems to be largly absent, from this site.
Where did you see this?
If you are refering to Malibu Ca. then this is a bit off. The prevailing winds over malibu are from the west towards Los Angeles, which is the nearest source of pollution, so unless you are attributing the pollution to the open ocean, the malibu sunsets would be natural. Also malibu faces south, meaning sunsets would be along the coast and not off the coast. You may have seen beautiful sunsets off malibu but I do not think you were in the state of California, I'm not sure what state you were in. .
Water itself has no color.
Water will look blue in the daytime by reflecting the sky, and black at night. I have also seen water that was green because it was full of green algae, and water that looked reddish-orange because it was draining out of a coal mine and was full of sulfur. Different materials in the water can cause it to appear different colors. Sometimes you can see through the water to the bottom, and then it is whatever color the bottom is.
No !
I at least tried to give 'Whirlwind' enough of an answer to start him thinking, Followed by some constructive criticism and a little chiding. You don't have any idea of the ridicule I was refering to, most questions were first made fun of then brushed off, with no effort to help find the answer. These were things that I was interested in but were only seen as fodder for a joke. If I can goad him into thinking and looking into it then it was good for him.
P. S.
I also understand that words are a poor substitute for real understanding of these concepts.
A good idea is worth fighting for.
If by an 'open place for ideas to grow and be exchanged' you mean a place where everyone agrees with you and tells you how wonderful you are, that is a place of stagnation where nothing grows. Only if your statements are challenged will you learn to defend them or abandon them. If your ideas and information is strong, attack will help you crystalize and strengthen your thoughts. If your theories are weak they will fall apart and the flaws will be revealed. Here is a place where ideas will either die, or grow stronger and more sharply defined. The crucible of dialogue will seperate the dross from the pure.
I'm watching.
Well for being withdrawn, it still seems to be generating some activity? I notice you seem to have an affinity for the word 'superfluous'?
I am enlightened !
It is indeed enlightening that you accuse me of sarcasm. Beautiful sunsets are not always caused by pollution, most are just natural atmospheric conditions.
I think 'Santa Claus' comes from the North.
So far everytime I have checked the winds are coming from the west, NW or SW, and since Malibu beach runs almost due west to East the winds would blow along the beach toward LA. Also what kind of pollution do you attribute to coming off the open ocean? Are the Whales, Fish, and Kelp, now polluting? Perhaps they have industry that I don't know about. Living in Malibu with the prevailing culture, I can understand how you could become disorented.
Emotion is Human, not Animal.
Not always, the level of parental care can be loosely related to the level of evolutionary development of the animal. Usually the more complex animals will care for the young and sometimes the weak and infirmed. The less complex will show less care for the young and in some cases the young are in just as much danger of predation from their own kind as others. The Cuttlefish, one of my favorites, is very intelligent but the adults die just after mating and provide no parenting. many lower forms do not recognize their young as anything but another meal, others provide surprising care. Animals in general will care for their own young, but not the young of others, and the weak are often abandon. All of these actions are the result of Instinct, animals DO NOT have emotional connections with anyone or anything, it is not part of their makeup. Any emotion in an animal is the projection of human emotions by the observer and does not exist in the animal. There are a few possable exceptions in the more highly evolved animals but this has not been definitively proven.
To expand on that point.
I think you are correct, I just wish you could tell the people who are trying to destroy some other group of people. The idea of peaceful co-existence is the ideal, where each group lives as they see fit without trying to force others to live the same way. It may mean segregation and partial isolation for some, but if that is what they want, so be it. I would suggest that primitive tribes living in remote areas should be considered as sovereign nations and given title to the lands they occupy by the world comunity, and only be given the assistance they elect to receive. One point, I think if you look at the historical record you will find that the US in reactive to violence, and does not initiate action without cause. I know there are a lot of wild conspiracy theories out there but most are not well substantiated, and quoting from the internet is not always reliable, you need to verify the source.
Hard to fight with one hand tied.
Unfortunatly the world powers have been forced to addopt a reactive attitude towards violence, instead of pre-emptive strikes to prevent violence, because the whiney Liberals would then cast them as the agressors.
Correct.
Usually a rapid initial development indicates a lower level end point, the longer period of growth gives a higher level of intellictual development.
Very Acceptable.
Yes a retraction is OK, or a correction would work just as well, but retraction sounds more literary. I would like to add that you are correct that in repressing a trait it could come back, or just the act of repression could be a strain that would lead to other problems. Eliminating a trait is not without problems, as that elimination might create a void which will be filled with something else, maybe better or worse. For example, you (hypothetically speaking) could eliminate the trait of bigotry, and then become arrogant that you are better than those bigots. 'Nothing more sanctimonious than a reformed whore', or you could become genuinely compassionate towards those that you formerly hated. Trying to alter the Psyche can be very risky. Read 'Equus' by Peter Shaffer for an interesting take on this issue.
Hello there.
Hello 'Lostinthought' I will add my welcome to the site. It is good to have another contributer who seems to be willing to give some thought to their entries. We have several already, but another member to a lively round table discussion is always welcome. Be forewarned the pace of the debate is somewhat slow compaired to a 'chat room' but the dialogue is more interesting. One bit of advice, review previous posts, as time permits, to get a feel for what has passed before, and to understand what the other contributors may be thinking. There is a lot to look at so pick out the threads that coincide with your interests. Most of us enjoy a good dialogue but there is an occasional hostile poster who seems to be looking for a fight. Don't be discouraged or intimidated, just pick and choose the thread that you wish to engage. However I'm not sure I approve of 'conservative and ignorant' used in the same phrase.
The course of evolution is being set.
What is civil and the intentions of the people will shape the environment, which will determine who is best suited to survive. But it is the intention of the whole population and not just a few with good intentions.
Keyboards and warm soapy water.
A few points, the keyboard can be cleaned, of course you unplug it first and some warm water works well. I once took one completely appart and cleaned everything with warm soapy water, after rinsing and drying the hard part was getting the keys back in the right place. There are also clear plastic covers that can be placed over the keyboard, I have seen them in some restaurants. As far as the font size, there is a zoom function on your computer, I have mine at 150% right now though I usually don't set up, I just wanted to try it for you. If that doesn't help, perhaps it is time for a new pair of glasses, reading glasses, or bifocals if necessary. I hope you can see this OK.
Cut it out.
Thai Sean, you are having way too much fun on this forum, now settle down and get more serious with your posts.
Busy Hands?
Well, putting it that way, it might give God something to do, and keep him out of trouble.
Thankyou.
Hello Lice, It seems that you were the only one to notice, or comment, Thankyou. Everyone is doing well. Since Mom can't drive for a little and Dad doesnt have his liscence now, I'm doing a lot of extra Taxi service, so I get to see her a lot.
Goodby.
This is just a bunch of BS. You are just an egotistic charlatan who just gets off seeing you name on the internet. You have been on this site long enough to understand about the delay, Computer glitches are no excuse for multiple entries. Your posts have been mostly regurgitated crap, It's time for you to leave and let users who actually have something to say, post entries. You are just trying to boost your numbers of entries so you can brag about having the most posts. Goodby.
Haste makes waste.
Sorry about that, but it really pissed me off that someone who has been on the site as long as you hasn't figured out that posts can take hours to show up on the dialogue page. Sometimes mine don't appear till the next day. I'll end this post with a line from a broadway musical, 'Only your friends will tell you the whole stinking truth'.
- - - - - ?
'Charlatan' and 'Crap' were a bit much. and please don't leave just because I was having a bad day.
Getting close.
Thankyou, the house is close, waiting for the kitchen counter tops. Will miss Thanksgiving but should be for Christmas. Probably get a temporary certificate and get the final inspection after I finish the railing for the balcony. I need to figure out how to post photos.
An Eternity.
I think it would be safe to say that from our perspective God has had billions of years to work out these amasing details of our world, and probably has the ability to arrange the billions of matches here on Earth. From Gods perspective you could say that he has an eternity to do whatever needs to be done, and once you remove the constraint of time, care can be taken to see that it is done right. If only Man would cooperate things would probably work out for the better.
To be continued ?
April is correct that she is coutinuing the previous line of thought, it is an unfortunate deficiency of some users of this site, that a quick glance gives way to a hasty and incorrect response, perhaps they are more interisted in seeing their post and name appear, than in understanding what they are replying to. Those mentioned who have changed the world have not forged it into a cohesive unit but have often further fragmented it, which was contrary to the original intent. This should not be considered a failure of the individual who initiated the change but of humanity for not adopting a common view of how the world should be.
That is another issue.
Yes, I agree with you that human technology and inventions are having a devistating effect on the Earth, but the original question was about survival, not it's consenquences. However I would point out that human technology and inventions would have little effect on the world were it not for the overpopulation that is driving the excessive explotation of Earths resources. Advanced Technology, properly used by a very small population, would have little or no effect on the environment. From this perspective, man's use of technology to survive, is now jeopardizing man's survival.
. ? .
I believe I was refering to the post by 'Lice'. The internet was just in general to anyone. A lot of people quote from the internet and I was saying you need to be careful about the source.
Rainy Days, always get me disconnected.
Our computers and connections are not perfect here in America either. My computer sometimes freezes up and in wet weather my connection can be pretty bad. I am running through 50-60 year old phone lines that have seen better days. I know 'misery loves company', but let's not compare miseries, let's just get on with the dialogue.
'What If' - A game for Fools.
What if your son bought drugs from a Drug Dealer, a criminal, trusting that they are safe to use. Did you fail to teach him where to buy, and who to buy from, and how to use, without overdosing or getting a bad product. Who is at fault. Parents teach your children well.
How good a friend?
Do you run fast and let your friend get caught, or do you let your friend get away?
Slowly Awakening.
I am not offended, and I agree with what you have posted on this. The issue is more complicated when one has grown up being taught that what we are tolde to believe must be accepted as factual. Metaphore and symbolism are not presented as possabilities. I have more to add later, but now I am pressed for time, a large family dinner for Thanksgiving. Till later friends.
What do you mean by that?
I believe that the point is that the stories in the Bible are not to be read as historical documentation of events, but lessons about life. Just as a Fable is not about Talking Foxes or Singing Crows, but the moral at the end. There may have been a man who built a boat to escape a flood, but if the point was to prove the events, the ark would have been discovered and would now be a Jewish Shrine or a pile of ashes after some enemy burned it. Debates about what kind of fish or whale swallowed Jonah are useless as he was never inside a fish, but was hiding from God to avoid going to Nineveh. The lesson was that when God calls you should do it. Joseph Campbell says the same thing "Follow your Bliss", is Telling you to do that which gives your life meaning, that is what "God" is calling you to do. I know that Thai Sean says that each person must read and understand for themselves, and I am sorry if my explination spoils it for some but this is the meaning I take from it now. That is to say that I may have a different understanding in the future. Have fun reading but remember that the bible is not the only source of truth and wisdom, I believe that there have been inspired words all over the world, and if there is intelligent life in space, then on other planets as well. The quest is to find these writings, but you need not find them all, just some that have meaniing for you.
Harmonic co-existence is possible? Good Luck !
One small point, if everyone lived where the food was there wouldn't be anyplace to grow food. Your other points are well taken, but Humans have the ability to think and plan for the future, so they could control their own numbers, live in places with access to food, and allow others to live as they see fit. It's a puzzle why humans, who are supposed to be so intelligent, don't do that?
Is this an excuse, or a reason?
Hello April, many years of indoctrination cannot be cast off without some struggle. I do not know what your religious background is, and perhaps you and Thai Sean had a more open-minded upbringing, but mine was in one of the more conservative Protestant Churches. The Bible was taught as fact, to be accepted literally. In High School several incompetent teachers made me aware that those in authority do not always have the correct answer. In college I began to doubt many things. After college the study of Karate led me to an interest in Buddhism, especially Zen, about which I read a lot. This lead me to renew my belief in God, but not the God and Bible as taught by the church. More recently Joseph Campbell has been a revelation. For many years I have had thoughts and ideas about my beliefs but could not clearly define what was wrong, now the book 'Thou Art That' by Joseph Campbell has clearly stated much that I was struggling with. Some may find it difficult to understand how hard it is to shed what is taught when you are very young. Were it not for several Epiphanies in my life, I might now be a Bible thumping literalist. I understand that the Mythology (I've been using the term 'Christian Mythology' for years to myself.) in the Bible is Metaphorical but it is difficult to get past the early training, understanding in the head does not always lead to feeling in the heart. I have met a few in the church who seem to understand the Metaphorical nature of the Scripture, but most are literalists and I do not wish to be confrontational. Evolution seems to be one of the focal points, and I can accept Creation through Evolution, but many see it as 'either or'. One of the Pastors of my church insisted that Evolution did not apply to Humans. Perhaps my defensiveness is a result of guilt for betraying what I was taught as a child. I know that many of those teachers were sincere but sincerity does not always lead to truth. It may be that there are too many 'Ghosts' that I do not wish to offend. I know what I need to do, a combination of meditation and Kata, but like every other procrastinator I have too many other things to do. It could also be like seeing the previews for a movie and then being dissapointed when you see it, after several dissapointments you just stop going to the movies. I would not want to achieve enlightenment and then think 'Is that all there is?' I'll leve you with this, being aware that I may be an honoray member. - - - - "Notice; tomorrow evenings meeting of 'Procrastinators Anonymous' will be postponed till sometime next week."
The whole Planet?
Thai, do you really think that humanity has the capability to destroy the planet? Perhaps most life on Earth, and certainly intelligent life, but the whole planet? This may be an object lesson for those searching for intelligent life elswhere, it doesn't last long after developing technology. So a few flashbulbs of technological civilizations going off throughout the galaxy or universe and none at the same time. The planet will survive, and will regenerate, with new life and perhaps intelligent life in several million years, but the current crop may fail. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. For all your rhetoric about Myth and the spiritual, and the illusionsal nature of this world, you seem to be very attatched to this physical reality, or was that someone else?
Haste etc. etc. etc.
Actually your first line was "How much time do you think the 'Planet' has before we destroy it April." Perhaps you should go back and read your own posts as well as others before you make a hasty response. You seem to be in such a hurry to get things posted, What's the rush? If you took a little more time, maybe you could get it right.
How right you are.
Well, I must admit that I find this a very interesting post, and one of the problems is not knowing who, or how many people are reading these threads. I can understand that you want to get these entries off quickly, but the phrase "When I write for real" really tells the tale. It sort of puts April and I in our place, doesn't it. Without knowing who is reading this site it becomes a secondary, casual exercise, not to be taken seriously. Well, who but your freinds will tell you the whole stinking truth.
Only if you choose to.
It is just my poor understanding, but to go to Hell you will need to pay your own way, and that could be very expensive, but to go to Heaven, is a free ride, The fair has already been paid.
We all have our faults.
Actually I prefer 'meticulous', but suit yourself. I have said before humor is difficult on this site, I am probably a bit too subtle. As far as sliding I'll leave you with what April told me once, - - Time's up. Sep 26, 2009 1:15:19 AM cite I've already been more than generous... by April
Pass the Soap, Please.
There is much to be said for science, good and bad. Science is a process that involves Theory, Development, and Application, and it is in application where the trouble starts. Science can be used to do much good but the person controlling the application can be more interested in profit than ethics. Too often a discovery that has much potential to do good is used to the detriment of the health and economics of others. The metal edged plow made it easier to cultivate the land but some farming methods are destroying the environment, so beating your swords into plow shears, can still be a double edged sword. Science can often explain how things happen but is still at a loss as to why things happen, and sometimes how things happen is not well understood. In a college class a science teacher was critical of Nuclear power plants and stated that oil was used to preheat the water and the reactor was just used to produce steam. His comment was that it was a lot of technology to 'Just Boil Water'. Years later I acquired a book that described the thermal properties of water, and in it a BTU was defined as the amount of heat to raise the temperature of 1 lb. of water 1 degree f. So heating 1lb. of water from 54 degrees to 212 degrees would require 158 BTU, If I remember correctly it requires much more heat to turn the water into steam, 270 BTU, to convert 1 lb. of 212 d. water into 212 d. steam, no increase in temp. 'Just boiling Water' clearly the science teacher did not uindersatand the process. The point is that those who determine the application must understand the process and the concenquences of the science to be used.
Nice Personality?
Yes those 'Beauty Queens' have a lot of good qualities, and during the competition you can see almost all of them.
They are alive and listening.
Thai Sean, I think people are listening, but let me come back to that. In your recent post "Hijacking" you ask why other users here are not more critical. If I were to post and rant and rave about what people are doing or not doing, it would be like 'Preaching to the choir'. Most contributors agree that we need to stop polluting and destroying the environment, the differences are in the details. The question is how to get the message to those who need to hear it. I, for one, think that Dropping Knowledge should publish selected threads from this forum. They could get the message to the public and obtain financial support. - - - Back to listenig, people are listening but who are they listening to? And by people I mean the majority who live on this planet. You may get a few thousand to protest, but compair that to the millions or billions who just go on poluting, destroying, and killing for no reason. How many know who the Dali Lama, and Nelson Mandella really are or what they stand for? People are listening to false prophets and rhinestone heros. Young girls look to Paris Hilton to know how to dress and wear makeup. She thinks she is a role model for them . With less than half a brain she's lucky she has good handelers for her money. How many people listen to Donald Trump who sees an area of wilderness in Scottland and wants to build a golf course with a luxury resort and probably a casino. People like him see land with no sign of human activity and think it is a waste. They want to develop it and put it to "Good Use'. I look out my windows and see parts of my property that are just growing wild and I think it is beautiful. What about celebrities and movie stars, these people do what their publicist says will be good for their image, perhaps a few are genuine but most are fake. Their profession is fiction and their lives are a fantasy. These are the heroes that people are listening to, not those who realy know what should be done. - - And politicians, I'll let that for someone else to comment on. - - April, please excuse my spelling, my dictionary is packed up, - somewhere?
The end is near? Maybe?
Thai Sean has very good reasons to be critical of Humanity, after all what have we done for the last few thousand years. Wars, distruction of each other and the environment, and now with technology the can do it even faster. What good have we done? every technological advance has hastened the collapse, the distruction of the earth, and the depletion of natural resources. So what have we done, art and literature only add to the depletion, we sit around and philosophize about the eventual end of it all? I'm not impressed. Perhaps Thai is not critical enough, but then who is listening?
Indistinguishable.
I'm sure both God and Man can distinguish criminal from victim, but when one does wrong and others stand by and do nothing, both are guilty, one of sin and the others of acquiesence to sin.
Most Species that Evolved are Extinct.
God or no God, your God or mine, Evolution or Creation, Creation thru Evolution, Nature, or life in general, the message is the same. Humanity has been given Gifts of a Planet with resources to live on, and the intelligence to use it properly. In Christianity we are taught to be stewards of the Earth, that is to use it wisely, not to waste or destroy it. These are part of Gods instructions and similar teachings can be found in other religions and philosophies. The Bible is full of examples of what happens when people fail to do what is right, Exile, Slavery, Distruction, which is where we are headed. In the Bible when God intervenes there is punishment before restoration, and only those who repented were saved, but not always right away. Job suffered greatly and lost everything before he was restored for being faithful. As this is a planet wide catastrophe, one wonders who or what will take us captive for our disobedience and sin. Wouldn't it be ironic if S.E.T.I. researchers and astronomers finally found evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence in the form of beings of retribution, hauling us away for destroying the planet. Humans are the products of evolution, but evolution favors those best suited to survive, that may not be us. Some evolutionary lines go extinct, thats the way it works. We cannot use God or Evolution as an excuse to plunder the Earth, as Thai says we are guilty of great sin and evil, but there is hope. Just as Jonah found in Nineveh people can change and avoid punishment. It's a choice we all need to make together, before it's too late.
Hope is better than Hopeless.
But hope usually precedes action, when there is no hope one is left with resignation and apathy. Anticipation of a positive outcome, moves many to act.
Hope with Action.
I guess this all comes down to the differences in our understanding and use of the word 'Hope'. A little story comes to mind, to illustrate. - - Three girls would walk together to a bus stop to get a ride to school each day. One day they were talking and walking a bit too slowly and when they got there the bus had gone. One girl just sat down and gave up hope of getting to school that day. The second girl sat down but was praying and hoping that someone would come along and help her get to school. The third girl was praying and hoping that someone would help her as well, while she was running as fast as she could to get to school. - - I would like to think that there are people like the third girl that hope that the problems will be solved but are working at it as well. I guess it comes down to how you preceive the world and what you see around you. I am doing what I can myself, (in our new house we are using a Geo-thermal heating system, we use the most fuel effecient vehicles we can afford, and I burn wood to suppliment the heat. at least I am not burning fossel fuel.) and I see others being responsible as well, it is encouraging and gives me hope.
One small Point.
I did not equate 'hope' with 'Apathy' it was 'No Hope' that I said could lead to 'Apathy'. I think sometimes you read posts too quickly and get things mixed up.
Real Fortune Cookies?
April, I think you will enjoy this story in a book by 'Edward Hays', 'Twelve and one half Keys', the story is called 'Chin Lin'.
Happy Birthday Jesus.
Thankyou, for myself I try to keep the real meaning in mind throughout the season and beyond. In our Church the giving of gifts is taught as symbolic of the gift to us from God in Jesus, both his teaching and his life. Based on some of the posts I've seen here, we could say it's our gift to each other. So I'll say 'Merry Christmas', Peace on earth and goodwill to all men.
Volunteers?
'If they would rather Die, then perhaps they should do so, and reduce the surplus population.'
I'm in, I'll see you there.
Well if they only accept evolved humanoids, that will be a relief to those of us who get to go, as that will eliminate all the religious types who don't believe in evolution, especially for people. We had a minister at our church who insisted that evolution was OK for animals and plants but did not apply to humans. This was a very dangerous way to think as it placed people sepertate from nature. Some time ago I was able to get a TV channel that broadcast a program called 'Origins' where experts would use scientific data to prove creation and disprove evolution. I would watch to laugh at them and ridicule their arguments. So the religious fundamentilast, Bible thumping literalists will be excluded, Who will we make fun of? We will be left with open-minded, free thinking, enlightened intellictuals, sounds like fun. Even without the narrow minded bigots there will still be lots of room for debate, but maybe this time it will mean something.
Retard?
Perhaps you should have used it, but not in the sense that you seem to think. Retarded has negative connotations in reference to mental capacity, but it also means to be held back or inhibited from reaching your goal, and the powerless majority is certainly being retarded by the powerful minority. The majority needs to collectivly assert their authority and regain their power to achieve the goal. Motivation of the masses would bring a message to Government and the rich elite for the betterment of society.
Mythological Symbols.
The myth may be spiritual insight from the unconscious mind but they must then be translated in terms and images that can be recognized by those hearing or reading the myth. Every myth I have ever heard uses images of recognizable people, places, and events, to relate the myth, the recognizable people, places, and events are symbols of the spiritual insight but without understanding the symbols or even realizing that they are symbols with deeper meaning, the real meaning will be lost.
A weight that you must bear.
April, you seem to be developing an interest in Mythology and I would suggest that you need to do the work of discovery yourself. Of course there is reading the Myths themselves but there are also a number of authors who can guide you to a deeper understanding of the purpose and meaning of Myth. Campbell, and Jung, are good also claude Levi-Strauss (of anthropology not clothing), whose writings may be helpful. The understanding you seem to crave is not something that can be spoon-fed on a site like this, but study and experience is most benificial. Experience in that some myths are associated with ritual and participating in those rituals will aid in encorporating the Myth into yourself. Your journey of discovery is yours, and while others may guide and help, you must do it and experience it yourself to gain the benefit. - - Be very careful of online resources and references as they will be only the most watered down and popularist versons on this subject. Now is a good time to start, just open your mind and be receptive to what you discover.
the learning curve?
April, I can empathise with your husbands frustration, but at least he has the advantage that the students want to be there. I was not so fortunate, I taught in the public schools where attendence was manditory, add to that my being White, most Black students automatically labeled me as a 'Racist Bigot' before there was any contact at all. Having very little previous contact with Blacks I was basicly nutrial on this issue. I left teaching when I was informed that the next year I would have both the boys and the girls in my class. So on top of being labeled asa a Racist Bigot, I would now also be a male Chauvinist by a larger portion of the students. That was an uphill battle in which I was not interested in being Sisyphus. That your husband is teaching at the college level would seem to indicate that he is a good teacher, in spite of his frustration. Not everyone is a good teacher. In my own area I could probably get a job tomorrow if I would renew my cirtificate, but I have no interest in being in front of a class. Not everyone has the aptitude or patience to do this, knowledge of the subject is not enough. It seems that in this case, it is you the student, who must have patience with the teacher.
Who's Watching?
These sentiments point up one of the difficulties of this site, how many are reading the posts? Thai, I'm sure both you and your shop teacher learned a lot during your time together, and I encountered the occasional promising student but in the end the rewards could not overcome the preponderance of indifference and hostility. One thing to consider if the dialogue were to continue, in a more instructive tone, it would be here to be read at some time in the future, by others, at least untill this site is shut down? You do know that this site opperates on the principle of 'Copyleft' so you can download and store whatever you want and use it later if needed. I wounder how long it would take and how much memory would be needed to store everything here?
You are not alone.
I think you may be wrong on this one, there are a lot of people who want to save the world, but we can't all agree on what to do or how to do it. Just because you can clearly see what, from your understanding, needs to be done, does not mean that everyone else agrees with your methodology. Even if people disagree with you, it does not mean that they are opposed to you.
Who?
Yes, everyone likes a good Science Fiction story, I especially like Dr Who with his Tardis, but on this forum I prefer to deal with reality and Real Science. String theory might be OK if they can figure out how to do it in 3 dimentions. Time is not a dimention.
It's a finite life span.
With ample evidence for the Big Bang, we now know that Time, Space, Matter and Energy all had a begining, before that there was nothing in fact there was no before that at all. Having a begining, Time will have an end, along with Space, Matter and Energy. Only if the universe had existed forever, could we expect it to go on forever, but it did not and will not.
Corrct.
Yes string Theory does require the existance of eight dimentions but so far the additional five dimentions have not been found or demonstrated. So thus far the theory has no basis in reality.
God is the Universe.
I had to give this one a bit of thought, but will start by saying that I am still revising my concept of God. To start with some background, many years ago I was brought up Lutheran with a traditional view of the Bible and God, later involvement with a very strict sect of the Church only served to drive me away. Study of Karate led me to read and addopt some of the concepts from Buddhism and the realization of so many similarites led me back to the mainstream Lutheran church, but with a revised view of the Bible and God. If you have read some of my other posts you will see that unlike others I do not try to put God in a box and sharply define what he can be, or can do. Any being or intelligence that can initiate the Big Bang and create the Universe is much greater than anything that the Human mind can imagian or comprehend. As Thai Sean says God is a metaphore for that which we cannot express or understand but can only experience. (I hope I got that right). Exposure to Joseph Campbell has led me to understand that the bible is primarily Judeo/Christian Mythology and as such cannot be read as a historic document, with a few exceptions, but as a collection of stories that teach lessons through symbols and metaphore much like parables and fables. I attribute to God the creation of the Universe, and accept that Jesus Christ was 'One with the Father' in that he existed as a historical figure and had a direct connection to God, but much of what is written about him is symbolic and not literal. I resist the temptation to elaborate and be more specific as my ideas would probably be much too limited, and I was not there to witness the events. As far as Gods involvment in the workings of the Universe, especially here on Earth such as the miracels and the various Bible stories, I have mixed feelings on that. I reject the idea that after creating everything God had to meddle and fix or correct errors or things that went wrong. At one point I felt that everything was put into motion from the begining and everything was progessing exactly as planed without intervention including those events that are inexplicable to our limited human understanding. I thought that this was an extremely elegant and miraculous view of creation. Currently I am entertaining the concept that once created, life was given free will to develop and move by choice with the full understanding that an occasional adjustment would be in order. This is only acceptable if it was God's intention to be this way, as a God who made mistakes and had to fix things would be imperfect and therefore unacceptable. An imperfect 'God' would just be another finite being and therefore less than God. I hope this answers your question, and clarifies where I am at this point, if not please ask. Concepts of God and Religious beliefs should be malleable and open to change, as a rigid inflexable Dogma can only stagnate and die, taking your beliefs, religion and spirituality with it. Mythology is the source of religion, but too many religions have been corrupted and allienated from the source Mythology and cease to be living, but die and wither away to a dry empty dogma.
Always the Optimist
Thai Sean, Its refreshing to know that someone sees a time when there will be no more lies and deception, keep up the good work.
According to the Dictionary !
Hello, This isn't my 'Funk & Wagnalls' so 'Webster's' will have to do. - - - Illegal - Prohibited by law; against the law. - - - Immigrate - To come into a new country, region or environment, in order to settle there. - - - Illebal Immigrant - One who immigrates without legal authority or permission. - - - Invade - To enter forcibly or hostilely; Come into as an enemy. - - - Invasion - an entering or being entered by an attacking army. - - - Army - A large body of soldiers for waging War, especially on land. - - - Miserable - In a condition of misery; Wretched; very unhappy; to be pitied. - - - Intolerant - Not tolerant, not willing to tolerate others opinion, religious beliefs, etc.; bigoted, illiberal. (I just thought this fit the general tone of this thread.) - - - Nasty - Morally offensive, very unpleasant, objectionable, mean, malicious ill-humored. (I thought this was my forte, but I feel that I am being usurped.) - :(
Here we go again.
Oh, Thai Sean, you are getting things mixed up again, please review the whole thread again noting who posted what. The Marquis objected to misserable people immigrating and moving in next door to him. I provided, at Aprils request, several key definitions from my dictionary, I don't recall stating an opinion one way or another. You need to take a little more time reading before you rush to post your reply. For the record, I do not object to immigration, I do object to illegal immigration, And I fully suport the idea of improving conditions in other countries so the desire to immigrate would be reduced, and I do understand the difficulties of overcoming the resistance of other countries in recieving help from the United States. Sometimes there are too many strings, and too much corruption.
Just keeps getting better.
I just thought of how to get the water back up into the roof tank, you place a pump onto the output of the turbine motor and in addition to moving the car it pumps the water back up into the tank, so you never need to refuel, as you just recycle the water over and over again. very environmentally friendly. you could also add a generator to power the sterio system.
No inverted flying.
Of course you would not be able to fly upside down as the water would not flow down into the motor.
Thats correct.
yes the danger from the appearence of white water rapids would not be real but may be entertaining, a video camera mounted on the tank might be a good diversion for restless riders. The real danger is on a twisty road if the water in the tank starts sloshing form one side to the other, it could tip the car over onto it's side, and you wouldn't get very far after that. And worst of all with no water flowing to the motor the generator would stop and you would not be able to listen to the stereo !
Good business?
So if a mistake is profitable, then we have learned from it and continue in order to keep making a profit?
A question please.
Just out of curiosity, you say you do not believe in God, is that the Judeo/ Christian God or all definitions of God in general? You say you are working with the mind, I have read a good bit on Buddhism and I think their view of enlightenment is a connection with what is sometimes refered to as the 'Universal Mind' although some Nihilists would refer to it as 'No Mind' and this leads to speculation that this may be their version of God. Without God or some other supernatural force What do you believe initiated the Big Bang? I heard once that the Pope advised Stephen Hawking that he could investigate the 'Big Bang' up to the first moment but should not look beyond as that was the moment of creation and the domain of God. I thought it was a bit presumptuous of the Pope to tell a scientist what he could and could not investigate. However I think the Pope has other problems right now.
That seems to be so.
I was not commenting on whether it was moral, ethical, right or wrong, just that some have learned that a mistake can be profitable. I agree that it is not right, just that these people can learn, now how do we teach them the error of their ways.
Good old Leo.
The local PBS station used to broadcast Leo Buscalia's lectures and we would watch every time we could. I belive he was refered to as the 'King of Hugs' or something like that. After a lecture people would line up to get a Hug from him, finally toward the end on one lecture he commented on how some were lining up for a Hug, and he said "Whats wrong with you people, instead of lining up to hug me, you should be hugging each other!" I believe he really knows what Love is.
Modern Myth?
I think April has a good idea to tell a story that would illustrate the error and consiquences of this practice. Possably in the form of a Fable, or Parable, or even Modern Day Mythology, told for todays world, in todays images and symbols, may reach people better than Myths told for a world of 2,000 or more years ago.
Sorry.
I was in a hurry. what did I miss-spell this time? I know, I should look it up myself.
April got it right !
There is no definition that states that truth is subjective or relative, That concept only exists in the fantasy world of Philosophy and Religion where "Scholars?" argue about 'What is Truth?' or 'Who am I?' ad nauseam. You say that truth is subjective, that everything is an illusion or delusion, and that what people precieve is not real. If the world that man preceives is not real, just an illusion, Why are you making such a fuss about the distruction of the environment, or the distruction of the Earth. What does it matter, its not real, just an illusion. If the world is an illusion, a product of your mind, why don't you go into a state of meditation and fix it, what are you waiting for? being over dramatic? The things that are subjective or relative are opinions and beliefs that may or may not be true, but the real Truth does not depend on human preception of it. Truth exists independent of what we know or believe. It is possible that no-one knows what is true and what is not, but it is also probable that some do know. Turning away from the world is not the way to find the truth about the world, That may lead to spiritual truth that is in addition to the truth about the corporeal existance. "I think therefore I am" only identifies us as thinking rational beings but we are also physical beings existing in a real world with it's own truth that exist whether we are aware of it, or believe in it. the real world exists and with it there is truth that is unchanging and independent of our minds. If you want to talk about beliefs and opinions, please do so, but just because you believe does not make it true, and just because you do not believe does not make it untrue.
Where do we disagree?
Thai Sean, Why are we butting heads arguing, read what I have written, read what you have written, we are saying the same thing but in slightly different ways. I agree that the natural world is our reality, and that is where we can find the truth. I also agree that mans preception of the real world is often faulty and distorted into illusion. I would like to add that a relazition of spiritual truth can only aid in the understanding of corporeal truth and reality.
Could we tell a story?
Thai Sean, What do you think of April's idea of puting this message into a story form, Fiction has often been used as a means to promote reform, social and political, as well as others. 'A Christmas Carol' was intended as a criticism of british class society of the time, and could apply today to some extent. If the story is set with todays images and symbols, people could relate to it better than a story set 2,000 years ago, or 'A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away'.
Better Dem. than Dead?
I think I must disagree, the three you mention were each the sole author of the message thay brought, and yes they had followers but these just carried the massage to the rest of the world. One person can iniate events with what they say and teach, and yes it takes many to perpetuate the lesson but the origines lie with one individual. The phrase "It takes A Village To Raise A Child" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This was the Battle cry of that 'Witch Hillary' in her efforts to ram Communism down the throats of the American public. It takes good parents to raise a child, and the support of family and friends helps but is not essential. If the Liberal democrats do succeed in furthering their socialist agenda you had better change your voter regestration to Democrat or you will be left out. A friend of mine had a daughter applying for college and as long as she was registered Republican she could barely get a reply, but after she changed to Democrat, she got more offers than she could use and eventually got a full scholarship. The same thing will happen to any program the Lib. Dems. get cotrol of and if it happens in medicine the Republicans will just be left out to Die, but then who would there be to complain.
Welcome Abord.
I have been criticized for saying this in the past, I think it is mostly because the person asking the question is too lazy to think a little about what they are asking. I know I was criticized for asking about locks on the tailgate of a pickup truck with an open bed, but that made me think of the Blond who locked herself out of her car and couldn't figure out how to get in. It was a convertable, - with the top down ! My question was really ment as a joke.
Absolutely Right !
I think all these offences should be made capitol crimes with the harshest posssible punishment, 39 days listening to recordings of Thai Sean ranting about saving the planet. After that much brain washing, provided they have one left, they will follow Thai anywhere. We'll get Thai some recruits for his cause, one way or another.
Puzzled?
I really don't know why he wants to save this planet anyway, there are lots better ones out there. It's not nearly so grand as Jupiter or spectacular as Saturn, just a miserable little fixer-upper, especially after humans got to it. But if it's important to Sean I'll help if I can?
Loose the anger, try Love.
Wow, I think I touched a raw nerve on this one, So upset that you had to post it twice? Quite a contrast from your earlier post on this thread.
True or False?
I must agree with April on this. People can be very honest about what they think, feel, and believe but such honesty may not lead to the truth. Some people believe that the Earth is flat, some believe that the Apollo Moon missions were staged in the western desert. Many do not believe that the environment is in danger or that polution is causing Global Warming. A person can be honest about what they believe but that belief may not be true. So many times honesty leads to that which is false, and being truthfull about a falsehood is then also false.
abuse.
Abuse can take many forms, and I do not know what you suffered, nor am I asking. I feel I can empathize to a point, some abuse is as subtle as being 'Number 2 son', 2nd best, that your interests were not aproved of, or ridiculed. There may not be physical scars or damage but the emotional damage is just as real. I wish you well, and please understand 'you did nothing wrong ! ' The person who abused you may not ask for forgiveness or even admidt to doing wrong, but if you forgive them perhaps you can start to free yourself from the pain.
Biased much?
Don't be so bigoted, this forum is hosted in germany, I'm surprised that there are not more languages represented here. Try babelfish.com
Hello, Thai Sean.
Welcome back, how is the farm going, and do I remember something about your house? It's been a bit slow here the last few months.
war
This was the plot line of a science fiction story I read once. The setting was much like gladiators in an arena. In this scenario the best fighters would be the leaders, but a warrior does not always make the best leader.
unequal
This will not work as each person does not do the same amount of work, or have the same or equal talents or abilities. You are proposing that unequal work would get equal pay, that has been tried and it doesn't work. It makes a nice lesson for religion but will not work in th secular world.
Wow
The text is not about the Chinese people and by taking such an attitude you are demonstrating your own bigotry against this person. I have had exchanges with him in the past and he in not racist or a bigot, that is your inference on the term. Perhaps not everyone is aware of the conotations you suggest.
Good Answer.
Someone has proposed that Jesus Christ died at age 42, perhaps that is significant?
T.I.C.
Yes and a bit facetious, but you should know me by now. How have you been, haven't heard from you in awhile.
Holliday?
Ahh, your little vacations in the jungle. I like to think of my own property as a retreat into the wilderness but in the autumn the leaves fall off the trees and I can see my neighbors more clearly, and am brought back to reality.
Treat what you can.
In some cases thats the best we can do, medicine cannot always see the cause before the crisis, and is left with treating what remains. In my own case the 'congestive heart faliure' was not detected till I was x-rayed for pneumonia and the enlarged heart was noted. Scar tissue in the heart indicated an event some time in the past, too late to prevent, so now we treat the aftermath. Sometimes this is the best we can do.
Survival?
That is the real problem. 'Genuine Christian Experience' is still there but it takes a lot of work to find it. Current 'Christian Religion' has done much to supress and extinguish it, all in the name of authority and power. Read thru the dogma that has been layered onto Christianity and you can still find the truth, but it usually is not in the church. However a church can still be a place to experience the ritual of the religion if you can see the meaning within the ritual. Joseph Campbell was very instructive for me in this regard, but I consider myself only a beginner.
Plaque?
A wall ornament can cause all that trouble, I hesitate to think what garden gnomes can do.
Tooth Brush?
Depends on how well you clean them. But I still don't see how poor dental health causes all that trouble, or do all those people have a tooth-ache.
Bad temper.
I seem to remember hearing somewhere, that Crocodiles and Alligators were so bad tempered and mean because they didn't have tooth brushes and had lots of tooth-aches.
I should be.
Committed that is, but I still get away with it. The only thing grand I have to offer is the bulk of my contributiions, and I think there may be something of value there or I wouldn't do it. Actually I was contributing before the Sept. 10 '06 round table but there was some problem with member registration and I had to start over. I agree that this site has potential but only if the ideas posted here can reach those who need to hear them.
Failure is part of learning.
Thankyou for that Thai, Diana Laufenberg is correct, and I hope that the public schools can learn this lesson. I was teaching when it was proposed that a child should not experience failure lest it damage their delicate little psyche. I knew it was wrong when I first heard it but could do nothing because those in authority embraced it and it became policy. I also heard an interesting exchange between two of my college professors on this subject. I only taught a few years after that policy was adopted.
Wrong!
Why don't you read all the posts before you accuse others, out of ignorance. Your post paints you as a bigot who jumps to conclusions without fully understanding what you are saying.
Try reading.
You havn't even read all that Lacrimoso has posted on this thread, which makes you worse than those who tell her it's her fault. Your advice is insensitive and of no value till you have read all the posts on the thread.
Short fuse, Sorry.
I guess this is one of my pet peeves, that someone will jump into a thread without at least seeing what was posted on that thread. Lacrimoso had stated that the abuse was a memory from her childhood and she is aparently somewhat older now. Much of Freehope's comments were too late, and then she accused all other posters of saying it was the victims fault, which you and I certainly did not. - Your comment that I was the only one who read all the posts, got me thinking, I have read all the posts from the begining of this forum. As I said elsewere I was contributing before the round table on sept. 10 '06 but had to re-regester at that time. Thats a lot to read, I wish I could remember all of it.
You're welcome.
And thankyou for the comment, as they say "Even a blind squirel finds an acorn once in awhile."
Rape is a four letter word.
It is true we are changing everyday, those who do not or cannot are dead, perhaps not phisically but spiritually. As Thai says, and I agree, we need an active, relevant, Mythology to connect us to the world and Universe to see the value beyond the mere monetary. The earth is a living, dynamic being and we need to live with it not against it. Change must start with each individual person and spread from there, telling others to change and not doing so yourself is hypocritical and ineffective. I have already started, ask me.
Misunderstanding.
My use of the word 'rape' was in reference to the way society today is useing the Earth. When I said I have changed it should have been changing, as most of us cannot completely become what we should in todays world. I did not call you a hypocrite unless you are one of those who will tell others to do something without doing it yourself. I would also assume that if you are willing to change, and are talking about it, the process has already begun, we are all in the process of change, and I have no way to know who is farther along than the other. I was trying to be brief and that is sometimes the enemy of clarity. Try not to be so thin skinned, I can tell you from experience it doesn't help on a forum like this. And refusing to listen to anyone is not a good idea, you can even learn by someone elses bad example.
P.S.
If you will look at my post again I said 'I have started', I did not say I was finished with the change or learning.
Temper - Temper.
I have heard that the Irish have a Temper, I've also heard that the Germans can have a worse Temper. Since I'm mostly German with a touch of Irish I may have you trumped on that score. I just watched the first video, and I agree with most of it. The one point I disagree with is his apparent representation of Empathy as applying only to negative feelings, or why would he say that there is no empathy in Heaven or Utopia. Empathy also applies to joy, happiness, laughter, and these are the feelings we are suposed to have in Heaven, I would say empathy is very much in play there. It may be a small point but I say if there is an error in a small point that I can verify, is there an error in a larger point that I cannot? There were some other parts that were questionable but I will need to watch it again.
La La Land?
That is OK if you want to live free of pain via. being druged up and in a pain free stupor. If you choose to live numb to the world, dead from the neck up that is certainly your choice, but I choose to live with a clear head without someone else leading me around and wiping me when I go. Numb New World.
Blind Faith?
"Get off his Back", do you really think he is looking at this forum? and if he is, correction of a small error can only make his presentation better. Yes I dissect and analyse everything and point out what I see, that's what I do. I'm not in the habit of just accepting anything without some thought. If I accept something without thought and it turns out to be wrong, who's fault is that? "My favorite hero of late"? and when another comes along he's passe', you sound a bit fickle or is it changable?
Come down to Earth.
Watched the first one again, and watched the second one half way through. The concept of an Empathic Civilization is a good one and is necessary. Jeremy Rifkin makes his point but his presentation has flaws and errors, and If I can see these others will as well, and this will hurt his credability. On a subject as important as this the presentation must be flawless and without error, or those who need to hear, will ignore it. Pie-in-the-sky, will not avail anyone, a solid well constructed presentation is what is needed to reach those who can make a difference.
Get Real.
You equate criticism and not careing, more the fool are you for that. If I didn't care I wouldn't post at all.
Suit yourself
It seems that you want this site all to yourself with no dissenting opinions, have it, I will not upset you private little soapbox where you can preach to yourself.
Which came first?
Really doesn't matter, both were done at the same time, but I'm not angry as much as dissapointed. It seems that no-one can say anything unless it is fawning praise of your particular agenda. No dissent or alternate opinion allowed, well have it your way, I just hope you don't get too lonely here.
Hello my Friend.
Hello Sean, I am glad for you to think of me as a friend, and even good friends dissagre, I certainly want to think of you as a friend, if I may. If I may say it reminds me of a line from an old broadway show "Who but your friend will tell you the whole stinking truth?". So it is here that we are comfortable to say what we really feel. I understand your passon for your quest, but I draw on my own experience as an educator and contact with many people, that to get a message across sometimes humor is the best. People will remember a joke easier than they remember a dry lecture and even more so than a hostile one. To get a message across one needs credentials and credibility. Credentials are easy, I could go on line and get a whole string of letters to go behind my name if I wanted to spend a little money. Credibility is a little more difficult but is easily lost. I once listened to a series of motovational lectures by Wayne Dyer that seemed to be a development of Norman Vincent Peals idea 'The power of Positive thinking'. Wayne Dyer used an example, and I'm not sure why, of buoyancy saying that the ancients did not understand it and thus built ships out of materials that would float i.e. wood. This is incorrect as the ancients did understand Buoyancy but didn't have the technology to use other materials, in fact if his idea had been correct they would never have used stones as ballast in the bottom of their ships, stones don't float. He lost, in that short item, his credibility and should have gotten his story straight. When I critisize I am trying to help make a better more accurate presentation, and if I can insert some humor so much the better.
Still here?
Hello thai Sean, good to see that you are still here, and the site seems to be picking up. I'll stick my 2 cents in when I can. I agree that anyone who is waiting for life to happen is making a mistake, 'do it now', would be good advice, or at least start moving in the direction you want to go. Right now taking care of my grandchildren is occupying my time and I can't think of anything I'd rather do. There are plenty of things I should do but they will keep till I get to them. I have been watching the threads and will keep watching, so even if I don't post, just remember I still lurking around the edges.
?
Except that the powerful can't watch everyone especially if they don't want to be seen. I have a friend who claims to be 'flying under the radar', not sure how he does it. So he is setting 'fair' for himself, and as long as his 'fair' doesn't conflict with the official 'fair' there is no problem and he continues as is. The powerful set the limits for those who cannot or will not step outside the bounds. When enough are ready to make enough noise the powerful can be pushed aside and a new 'fair' can be established.
belief
Actually there are universal truths, what you are refering to is belief. A person can believe that something is true but that does not make it true even for them. If they believe in something that is not true their belief does not make it true, they are just holding a false belief. There is a very important difference between belief and truth.
Hello,
Hello Mc Finagain, Thia, Sorry I haven't posted lately but sometimes life gets in the way of everything you'd like to do. Also I'm not as well versed on the political aspect and do not post on it as much, there are others who know more than I. Let me see some things on other subjects and I'll stick my 2 cents in. Haven't seen April post for awhile, hope she's OK?
true
I agree and briefly stated, environmentally man must learn to live within his means.
Not so,
Actually intelligence does not come with built in knowledge so there will still be a need for teachers to guide students in the course of learning. In fact if that intelligence comes with a thirst for knowledge there may be more need for teachers and their job will be a bit easier.
Asprin time.
It was loud, Trevor was running around all ofer the place, Emily found something she liked and didn't seem interested in anything else, there were presents and paper all over, I tried to hide in a corner, but I did get to play with my toy, a Baldwin 5'-8" Baby Grand Piano. Actually we got it last summer but it's my Christmas present. It was a great time and now the daughter is going to pick up another grandson.
cycles
The idea that poverty is a cycle taught to children by parents makes a lot of sense but it is not the only concept passed for one generation to the next. When I was teaching the most troubling for me was the lack of value placed on education in general, the often heard phrase was 'Why should I learn something I'll never use after I graduate?". On evenings where the parents came into the school this was clearly evident in the comments by those parents. chidren learn a lot more from their parents than most give credit for.
Good attitude
On the other hand the good attitude of a student was very evident in the parents of those children.
Either Or?
Hello Thai, I don't side with either. Newton described Gravity the best way he could with what he had, Einstein gave us a more detailed look and a more accurate description of how gravity works, so in reality Einsteins work complemented Newtons work it did not eliminate it. The question is how quickly the effects of the Sun's mass would be felt on the Earth, I understand the theory states that Gravity opperates at the speed of light, but has this been demonstrated and proven? I guess in my first response I was not thinking about the time of response when the OP used the term 'Instantly' I was considering that when the effects of gravity of the Sun disapeared the Earth would then continus in a relitavely straight line.
Link.
Yes I looked at it and am familiar with most of what I read, as i said I was not considering the 8 min. time delat when the OP used the term 'Instant' but was thinking of when the effects of the Suns gravity would stop. I guess I thought he was suggesting the possibility that the Earth would continus in orbit for Hours or days after. I was not thinking of the 8 minutes.
